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Author Topic: Does it bother anybody else?????????????  (Read 9464 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« on: August 31, 2014, 09:54:58 PM »

I just looked at the Telefunkin studio cable add that comes across the top of the screen and there is a shot of the solder connections.

It looks to me as if there is a jumper going from the shield connection to someplace else.

The only place I can imagine is to the shell connection.

This is SO wrong.  It just opens up the possibility to all sorts of ground loops-depending on particular situation-but once you have a wall box that is grounded via conduit you are possibly in trouble.

Maybe I am missing something here.  I realize it is "bad form" to talk bad about an advertiser-but in every class (especially the respected grounding classes by Neil Muncy and Bill Whitlock) this is considered wrong.

Please correct me if I am missing something here.
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Ivan Beaver
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Ray Aberle

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Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 10:48:23 PM »

//starts reloading the page multiple times to see the ad in question, thus generating page view revenue for PSW//
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2014, 01:45:38 AM »

It bothers me more when I see thread titles which don't tell you anything about the thread's subject!


Steve.
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Tim Halligan

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Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2014, 03:17:16 AM »

Adblock solves that problem

 :P

Cheers,
Tim
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Jens Palm Bacher

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Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2014, 06:07:24 AM »

I just looked at the Telefunkin studio cable add that comes across the top of the screen and there is a shot of the solder connections.

It looks to me as if there is a jumper going from the shield connection to someplace else.

The only place I can imagine is to the shell connection.

This is SO wrong.  It just opens up the possibility to all sorts of ground loops-depending on particular situation-but once you have a wall box that is grounded via conduit you are possibly in trouble.

Maybe I am missing something here.  I realize it is "bad form" to talk bad about an advertiser-but in every class (especially the respected grounding classes by Neil Muncy and Bill Whitlock) this is considered wrong.

Please correct me if I am missing something here.
The germans have another view on this: http://www.neumann.com/forums/view.php?bn=neumann_mictec&key=1314272882&v=f
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2014, 07:32:13 AM »

And that response tells me all I need to know.

From Neumann per the link above;

"If you research this and many other forums dealing with professional audio and studio topics, you will find plenty opinions and controversy about proper and improper ground connections for microphone cables with XLR connectors. It is a long story...

As you have found out, the fourth terminal present in most XLR-connectors is there for a good reason: to connect the shell to the cable shield, thereby assuring the most direct and continuous path to system ground, thereby greatly reducing the effect of the microphone cable operating as an antenna for RF-energy. Just because certain cables are expensive does not necessarily qualify them as being from top of the line manufacturer, or that they are to quality! Neumann cables are NOT wired differently, rather they are wired correctly according to generally accepted standards and sound engineering principles.
 
There is no reason why the conductive shell and microphone housings should not be connected to the shield of the microphone cable directly via the terminal expressly provided by the connector manufacturer for this very purpose. With this in mind, there is also no reason why you should shy away from adding this connection (jumper between pin 1 and the shield terminal) yourself on improperly wired existing cables...  "
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Kevin Graf

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Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2014, 09:25:27 AM »

What about AES Standard 54?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2014, 09:30:57 AM »

And that response tells me all I need to know.

From Neumann per the link above;

"If you research this and many other forums dealing with professional audio and studio topics, you will find plenty opinions and controversy about proper and improper ground connections for microphone cables with XLR connectors. It is a long story...

As you have found out, the fourth terminal present in most XLR-connectors is there for a good reason: to connect the shell to the cable shield, thereby assuring the most direct and continuous path to system ground, thereby greatly reducing the effect of the microphone cable operating as an antenna for RF-energy. Just because certain cables are expensive does not necessarily qualify them as being from top of the line manufacturer, or that they are to quality! Neumann cables are NOT wired differently, rather they are wired correctly according to generally accepted standards and sound engineering principles.
 
There is no reason why the conductive shell and microphone housings should not be connected to the shield of the microphone cable directly via the terminal expressly provided by the connector manufacturer for this very purpose. With this in mind, there is also no reason why you should shy away from adding this connection (jumper between pin 1 and the shield terminal) yourself on improperly wired existing cables...  "
And I would argue that within the limited context-they are correct.  For example a microphone going to a mixing console.

HOWEVER the name of the cable is "Studio", and in most REAL studios-very rarely does the mic cable go directly to the console. 

Instead it goes to a wall panel that has other mic jacks on it.  And when you start to hook more cables together- and to things like DI boxes and possible taking sends from that same panel to other pieces of electronics-THEN you start to set up all sorts of ground loop possibilities.

And XLR cables are used for more than hooking up microphones.  Very often they are used to hook pieces of electronics together-greatly enhancing the possibility of problems.

I guess that was long as every piece of gear in the system is properly designed not to have pin 1 problems, then you "might" be OK.

I still stand by my "understanding and experience" and will NEVER connect pin 1 to the shell of an XLR cable or on a jack on a wall plate.

Why invite problems?

But maybe that is just me-------------
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Peter Morris

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Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 09:54:38 AM »



I still stand by my "understanding and experience" and will NEVER connect pin 1 to the shell of an XLR cable or on a jack on a wall plate.

Why invite problems?

But maybe that is just me-------------

Absolutely agree - connecting pin 1 to the shell of an XLR is a recipe for earth loops.

Your equipment can be perfect but the metal shell of the connector / cable just needs to come into contact with the metal part of a stage, scaffold or any other metal structure and you can have a problem. These will all be a slightly different earth potentials and possibly even connected to the lighting earth etc.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 07:41:00 PM by Peter Morris »
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Corey Scogin

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Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 12:06:36 PM »

In EE school, we were taught that shielding on communications cabling should be only connected at 1 side in order to avoid ground loops but still provide a drain for the shielding.  Shouldn't this be the case for microphone cables also?  In the case of a microphone cable, the male end would be the one to connect the shell to the shield.

Also, it seems better to me for the Pin1 signal ground to be isolated from the shield but I haven't noticed any microphone cable with a dedicated shield.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Does it bother anybody else?????????????
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 12:06:36 PM »


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