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Author Topic: AC Power for small outdoor event  (Read 22661 times)

kel mcguire

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2014, 04:31:33 PM »

it's probably a good idea to visit the site, scope out where the band will be, and where the power is. I rent the Honda EU series all the time. Love them. Quiet. I bought the Honda parallel kit and sometimes will rent two 2k or 2 x 3k EUs. United Rentals usually has a deal; pick up friday after 3pm, and you get Sunday free if you're back by 9am monday. Typical is around $40 for the 2k, $60 for the EU3000. the 3000 has two versions, the electric start has a bit more headroom. You can also find 10ga, 50 and 100'  extension cords that come in handy.
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Justin Schack

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2014, 02:37:33 PM »

I want to thank everyone again for sharing the great advice and expertise. I think we've come to a resolution - the organizers have a 5500-watt inverter generator. Not sure the brand but I'm thinking that pretty much ensures safe, clean power for us.

Last question, though: The length of my Furman power strips is likely not long enough to run from the genny to where we'll need juice on "stage." I'm guessing we'll want to have the genny not right on top of us so the noise doesn't drown us out. What gauge of extension cord should I be using to run from the generator to my strips?

Thanks!
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2014, 02:59:46 PM »

I want to thank everyone again for sharing the great advice and expertise. I think we've come to a resolution - the organizers have a 5500-watt inverter generator. Not sure the brand but I'm thinking that pretty much ensures safe, clean power for us.

Last question, though: The length of my Furman power strips is likely not long enough to run from the genny to where we'll need juice on "stage." I'm guessing we'll want to have the genny not right on top of us so the noise doesn't drown us out. What gauge of extension cord should I be using to run from the generator to my strips?

Thanks!

Don't just take their word for it.  Get brand and model and check it out thoroughly.  There's a very large range of quality in inverters.  Some are total crap.

As to the cabling issue: 

You not only need the proper gauge, but it should be proper "event rated" cable, SO, SOOW or such.  All cables should be full length, no intermediate connections or splices.  12 gauge minimum, larger if the distance is over 75 feet.
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Justin Schack

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2014, 09:09:43 AM »

Thanks. I asked. Good news: it's a Honda 6500iS.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2014, 09:58:57 AM »

Thanks. I asked. Good news: it's a Honda 6500iS.

+1 on that genny. Plus it's quiet enough that you can park it close to the stage and not hear it. Really...

Make sure you orient it so the exhaust points away from the stage. One time when I was getting a little exhaust blow-back I just stuck a box fan by it to waft the fumes away from the stage. Worked great and cost me nothing since I always throw a few box fans in the truck for outside shows. Playing in the sun can get a little warm and the artists really appreciate the breeze. Plus it makes your hair look good.  ;D

I'm double-checking with Honda, but I believe this is a floating neutral generator. If that's the case, you'll probably want to make a Neutral-to-Ground bonding plug, then bond the generator's grounding lug to a ground rod. Make sure you check with the utilities before you start pounding sharp metal objects in the ground. Or better yet, get the stage installer or whoever is delivering the generator to drive the ground rod before you get them. But don't bet on that happening. Hah!  >:(

Also, note that this particular generator has a 120-volt only or 120/240-volt mode set with a voltage switch, so you'll need to check out the distro connections. See page 16 on the manual at http://cdn.powerequipment.honda.com/pe/pdf/manuals/31Z25600.pdf

I believe that for your setup, you'll probably just run in 120-volt mode and maybe pull power from the 30-amp twist-lock for your stage amps and use the 20-amp duplex outlet for backline and mixer power. At least, that's how I would do it if I didn't have a 2 leg distro available that would connect to the 120/240 twist lock receptacle.

I know a few of you forum guys have a similar generator. How would you hook it up?
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 10:21:17 AM by Mike Sokol »
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2014, 10:17:44 AM »

Congrats on the Honda.

Use two 12 gauge cables from the Hubbel outlets to get power to the stage if you don't have access to a proper distro with a twist lock connector. Two cables will help insure you experience minimum voltage drop over distance.  With that unit you shouldn't have to be more than 50' from your stage.
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2014, 10:39:30 AM »

Mike, what do you recommend to identify the Neutral-Ground bonding plug?  Is there a standard color for identifying that device?  In the absence of a standard, I would probably use orange e-tape and a Sharpie to mark the plug. Mark C.
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Mike Sokol

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2014, 11:01:28 AM »

Mike, what do you recommend to identify the Neutral-Ground bonding plug?  Is there a standard color for identifying that device?  In the absence of a standard, I would probably use orange e-tape and a Sharpie to mark the plug. Mark C.

I generally use yellow or orange e-tape and a sharpie. My video shots show me with a P-Touch label on a G-N bonding plug, but I don't think that's rugged enough for live sound use. I usually mark it "G-N Genny Bond" or just "G-N Bond". Even if somebody is stupid enough to plug it into an already bonded receptacle, it's not the end of the world (as long as the bonded receptacle is properly wired itself). Double neutral bonds allow return current to flow in the EGC (safety ground wire) which will make any GFCI in the path trip. And, of course, the EGC should only carry ground fault current, not neutral current.

Guy Holt

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2014, 07:19:04 PM »

I'm double-checking with Honda, but I believe this is a floating neutral generator. If that's the case, you'll probably want to make a Neutral-to-Ground bonding plug, then bond the generator's grounding lug to a ground rod.

If by “Neutral-to-Ground bonding plug” you mean what’s pictured below, an Inspector might have an issue with it.  Bonding the Neutral of a portable generator to its' frame is not as simple as putting an external jumper between the ground and neutral of an open receptacle. Article 250.4 (5) "Effective Ground-Fault Current Path," of the NEC requires that the grounding system create "a permanent, low-impedance circuit capable of safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current likely to be imposed on it...."


An Edison Plug end jumper (like the one pictured above) that is rated for no more than 15 Amps clearly does not meet the requirement to “capable of safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current.” And, it is not permanent (I have had Inspectors kick my grounding clamp on hydrants to see if they are secure.)


In open frame generator models, like the ES6500, you can simply add a Neutral Bond jumper from one of the generator winding leads to the frame (as pictured above.) In an EU series inverter generator, bonding the Neutral to Ground requires removing the main panel and inverter module to get behind the breakers, switches, sockets etc. - not easily done or undone. According to the Honda Service Bulletins, it should only be done by a qualified Honda service technician.

Guy Holt, Gaffer
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2014, 08:36:13 PM »

The maximum ground fault "likely to be applied" in a setup using several 20 amp circuits is 20 amps.  For many years a #14 AWG was acceptable fr a 20 amp circuit, but no longer.  Given that the actual construction of a 15 amp receptacle is virtually identical to a 20 amp receptacle, I am fairly confident it would handle the overload long enough to clear a fault.

The lack of a permanent bond has always been what troubles me about this solution; however, on a rental or borrowed genny that the owner is likely to take exception to non-service center modifications a ground-neutral bond that is not technically code compliant seems better than no bond at all, does it not?

Maybe an off wall suggestion, but perhaps a bit of clear silicone might be in order to ensure that the bonding plug doesn't vibrate out and will actually take some effort to remove-reasonably easy to clean off when done.  Nearly every breaker panel manufactured has a ground-neutral bond that can be removed in under 10 seconds with a straight screwdriver.

 
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Steve Swaffer

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Re: AC Power for small outdoor event
« Reply #49 on: September 12, 2014, 08:36:13 PM »


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