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[frank kayser]

Deb,
went through a similar thing *again* yesterday at a festival.  Seven stages, and a number of groups I had worked before. Thought it would be a good place to learn a bit from some of the "bigger boys" and some general networking.


I've been known to offer to remix strangers before - and I have always felt uncomfortable in the offering - after all, who needs another "punter".  But this is always weighed against my enjoyment of the music, and how the artist is presenting oneself - in the best light?


Yesterday, I heard an awful mix (or two) from what should have been top-notch sound providers.  Maybe they did not understand the music... just because there's a sub and a drum doesn't mean that should be mixed like dance music.  I did not have the guts to talk to the sound guys to fix what was going on - and sill feel regret in not doing so.


How does one go up to FOH and not appear as just another punter whining about something.


Starting with Bob Leonard, and working your way down the thread, good advice. Especially the long term view of taking the young'un under your wing a bit.  Since your friend opened the door a bit, I would have offered to "touch up the mix a bit" - maybe spend a song or two dialing it in - and then sit and "enjoy".  Maybe the kid will have "seen the light" and show some interest.  Mike Christie made a valid point - one I did not think of before - the responsibility to the local venues.  Lousy sound will close a venue eventually - and that death spiral takes us all with it.


frank

[Debbie Dunkley]

Good points as usual guys.

The 'good' news is that she did understand there was a problem. Before I answered and she saw me simply smile, she actually said, " Mmm, he's (the sound guy) not very good is he?". So I said, well he does need some training.
I tried to explain what I was hearing to her - she is not very savvy that way but she understood. I told  her that I love to hear her sing and was simply disappointed in the fact that she was straining to be heard  and I could tell. She told me she could tell there was a huge difference in the sound when we run it for her.

I saw various problems.
1) That young man should not have been left with the console alone. He had no idea what he was doing and requires some training.
2) I honestly think that even if it had been me sitting there, or even one of you more experienced peeps, there was very little that could be done to get those speakers to sound much better.
3) Sadly, as 'seasoned' as those guys appeared, I think they fall into that category Dick - not even recognizing how bad the sound was I believe they were guided by their eyes and not their ears. 2 healthy looking stacks of boxes must sound good right?
4) It seemed as if there were no highs whatsoever. It sounded like it does when I have my subs and mids working but nothing coming through the horns. The fact that no-one seemed to notice is too weird.
5) The crowd seemed to like it and I am not sure they would have known the difference if it was good or bad. This worries me because the week before, I was running the sound for the band who played that week and it sounded fantastic.
6) My friend is the newcomer in the band and I hate to say it but having been a girl in this world in the music industry for a long time, it is the same as any other field - sometimes we are not taken seriously and I saw the rolling of the eyes from the guitar player and the young guy when she asked for more me.
Sometimes its a case of' "Who do you think you are? - we have been doing things this way for years and we know what we are doing".

Don't get me wrong, I love being a girl and it has many advantages but it is sometimes a tough gig getting guys/musicians to take you seriously which leads me to my final point and why I did not offer to help.

When hubby isn't actually playing with his band and he and I run sound together for someone else, I have noticed a few things.
Till the band members get to know me - and they eventually realize the part I play -, they will go up to Chris and ask for what they need. All communication goes through him and I get treated like the sound guy's girlfriend/wife. Little do they know he comes straight to me with concerns because he doesn't 'do' technical. I am OK with that because it makes no difference how the message is delivered as long as it gets to me.  But sometimes I get a bit frustrated.
Also, I couldn't do this without him- he does the majority of the hauling in and out, sets up the stage area, drums, mics etc and I wire up the FOH and monitor systems. We have a great method and it works so if it ain't broke - don't fix it. 
I think because I am not always taken seriously that if I had walked over to that console and spoken to the young man, I really think he would have disregarded everything I had to say. And of course as Frank said, how would he know I wasn't just another 'punter'

Ironically, there are local musicians who have gotten to know me who will call me to ask for advice on equipment buying and set-up because they 'get' me and they know that I am happy to research anything for them that I am unsure of.

 I have friends who have home stereo systems that sound like poop and they think they sound great . I went to  Bon Jovi concert a few months ago here in Raleigh and the sound was awful. No drums, vocals far too loud - just not good. My friend said she thought it sounded great…..

Anyway…. I'll keep plodding on till I can plod no longer and I will endeavor to do the best job I can and try not to be too judgmental of others….. for some folks, it makes no difference whether the sound is good or bad it seems.

[Tom Roche]

...for some folks, it makes no difference whether the sound is good or bad it seems.

This is true.  And for many of them, I surmise, they wouldn't know good from bad sound if it kicked them in the tush.

[Ray Aberle]

Debbie, since you have worked with this singer before in other bands, maybe (if this comes up again) she can have you hired to provide sound for this band. And then, they ask the drummer's son to come along and help out. If he wants to, that is... but he can see what they can really sound like, ask questions, and maybe improve his skills.

Sometimes the hands-on experience is the best.

-Ray

[Thomas Le]

These days some "engineers" really don't care for good sound...

A month ago, I was in Dallas visiting family and we went to see a Kraig Parker Elvis Tribute show. Lets just say the the guy running the board can't mix for crap, I couldn't even hear the lead vox/Kraig clearly at all. Everything else in the mix was bad; piano and string section nonexistent, guitar and brass section was overpowering everything, drums sounded like mush. A Vi6 with compact Meyer line array, fully capable gear and the guy was on his cell practically the whole show!

[Tim McCulloch]

Ah yes.  Back when I was young and oh so very certain of my abilities I'd have probably approached the kid and said "here, let me fix the vocal for you" and pretty much dial the whole mix in.  If he was observant and paid attention he might have figured out what I was doing.  Not very subtle and ultimately not particularly helpful for more than a few minutes.

These days?  Uh, I'd probably have to tell the singer "gee, I love your vocals but I'm having trouble hearing them in the mix, over the bass stage volume, in a PA with blown horns."  And find a way to leave before the next set started.

I like the various ideas for engaging the drummer's son; perhaps he really would rather be doing something else and he's there for the muscle and to sit at FOH so crazy soundladies and Napoleonic soundguys don't take over... but if he really wants to learn, he's the one hope this band has.  Ultimately these are touchy political situations, though, and that's why I'd probably decline to intervene without the political backing of the band leader.

[Debbie Dunkley]

Ah yes.  Back when I was young and oh so very certain of my abilities I'd have probably approached the kid and said "here, let me fix the vocal for you" and pretty much dial the whole mix in.  If he was observant and paid attention he might have figured out what I was doing.  Not very subtle and ultimately not particularly helpful for more than a few minutes.

These days?  Uh, I'd probably have to tell the singer "gee, I love your vocals but I'm having trouble hearing them in the mix, over the bass stage volume, in a PA with blown horns."  And find a way to leave before the next set started.

I like the various ideas for engaging the drummer's son; perhaps he really would rather be doing something else and he's there for the muscle and to sit at FOH so crazy soundladies and Napoleonic soundguys don't take over... but if he really wants to learn, he's the one hope this band has.  Ultimately these are touchy political situations, though, and that's why I'd probably decline to intervene without the political backing of the band leader.

You hit the nail on the head Tim…

The kid looked like he was only there to impress the ladies. He wandered around watching to see who was looking at him with his heavy leather key lanyard hanging from his droopy pants.
I think he could enjoy mixing if he simply understood the fundamentals….I enjoy learning more and more about this art form. I wouldn't want to learn though if I was listening to that miserable sound.

It was tough not to just walk over and ask the young guy if he could hear what I could hear but I was simply gracious and I applauded after each song.
We tried to make it through the afternoon but in the end we left just after the 2nd set started (venue requires 3 in total) and I waived to my friend, blew her a kiss and applauded above my head so all the band members saw me.  The bass player thanked us for coming over the PA while the music was playing - at least I think that is what he was doing -couldn't really make it out !!!

[Steve M Smith]

and the guy was on his cell practically the whole show!

If I had hired him, he wouldn't have been paid.


Steve.

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