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Author Topic: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?  (Read 16792 times)

Bob L. Wilson

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Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2014, 02:19:40 PM »

I find that placing any mic inside of such a box gives you exactly that...the sound of the inside of the box.  That's not the sound I want.

Gotta try it Mikey you might like it! and a pretty decent kick drum sound can be had with an SM91 laying on the pillow in the drum.

I agree though that neither seems like it would work well but both do. Plus it doesn't matter if the cajon is moved, tips over, or whatever my pzm will still be grinning.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2014, 02:28:05 PM »

Gotta try it Mikey you might like it! and a pretty decent kick drum sound can be had with an SM91 laying on the pillow in the drum.

I agree though that neither seems like it would work well but both do. Plus it doesn't matter if the cajon is moved, tips over, or whatever my pzm will still be grinning.

If I hadn't tried it I wouldn't have any basis for critical comment.  Not speculating here.  BTDT.

There are much better setups with exterior mics, but if the player wants to move around you have to take what you can get.  Positioning relative to other sound sources on stage is another biggie as is the overall sonic content of the ensemble. 

I prefer to defer until everything is in place, both physically and enseble-wise, then do what's best. 
One size does not fit all.

Edit FYI:

http://34iac.acoustics.sk/proceedings/Kicak.pdf
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 03:31:48 PM by dick rees »
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Tommy Peel

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Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2014, 03:55:00 PM »

So in terms of preserving the actual acoustic tone of the cajon and then acquiring that tone for the PA I don't think one could find a worse way to do it than this. What if I said I am going to go up to a bass reflex sub and block 60% of the total port area right in the center? We could model this exactly with some computational fluid dynamics but in general something like 75% of the total sonic energy wants to move through an area at the geometric center of the port equal to about 33% of the total port area. In short this approach alters substantially the tone one is trying to capture in the first place. My favorite solution for quick and dirty is a Crown PZM mic stuck to the inside bottom of the Cajon with 3M command strips.
Physics aside I stand by the setup. It gives us the sound we're looking for while being out of the way and allowing the player to move the box around. If I had a bigger mic selection I might use something different, but with the mics I have this gives the best sound. I've tried the other combinations I have access to and this works/sounds best; for me it's as simple as that. YMMV of course.

Sent from my Moto X(XT1053) using Tapatalk

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Tommy Peel

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Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2014, 03:55:24 PM »

So in terms of preserving the actual acoustic tone of the cajon and then acquiring that tone for the PA I don't think one could find a worse way to do it than this. What if I said I am going to go up to a bass reflex sub and block 60% of the total port area right in the center? We could model this exactly with some computational fluid dynamics but in general something like 75% of the total sonic energy wants to move through an area at the geometric center of the port equal to about 33% of the total port area. In short this approach alters substantially the tone one is trying to capture in the first place. My favorite solution for quick and dirty is a Crown PZM mic stuck to the inside bottom of the Cajon with 3M command strips.

Physics aside I stand by the setup. It gives us the sound we're looking for while being out of the way and allowing the player to move the box around. If I had a bigger mic selection I might use something different, but with the mics I have this gives the best sound. I've tried the other combinations I have access to and this works/sounds best; for me it's as simple as that. YMMV of course.

Sent from my Moto X(XT1053) using Tapatalk

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Bob L. Wilson

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Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2014, 04:04:17 PM »

Physics aside

I never have any luck getting physics to step aside, so I will simply have to defer to your expertise in that area.
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Bob L. Wilson

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Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2014, 04:05:57 PM »

If I hadn't tried it I wouldn't have any basis for critical comment.  Not speculating here.  BTDT.

There are much better setups with exterior mics, but if the player wants to move around you have to take what you can get.  Positioning relative to other sound sources on stage is another biggie as is the overall sonic content of the ensemble. 

I prefer to defer until everything is in place, both physically and enseble-wise, then do what's best. 
One size does not fit all.

Edit FYI:

http://34iac.acoustics.sk/proceedings/Kicak.pdf

I am as surprised you didn't like it, as I was that I did.  What PZM(s) did you try? Good link my hypothesis based on his data is obstructing the port with an object is going to both attenuate and alter the frequency response of the output.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 04:16:01 PM by Bob L. Wilson »
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2014, 04:36:43 PM »

I am as surprised you didn't like it, as I was that I did.  What PZM(s) did you try? Good link my hypothesis based on his data is obstructing the port with an object is going to both attenuate and alter the frequency response of the output.

I've tried three different models of AT, an original SM91 as well as a PCC160.  I've also used a D2, D6, N/D868, KSM44 and a Pro 35 in various positions but never blocking the port.  All these were to catch the LF. 

Future experimentation will be to try a variation of the LP mount and if I can find or make one, a SubKick.

I thought you'd like the research paper...
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Bob L. Wilson

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Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2014, 10:20:24 AM »

I've tried three different models of AT, an original SM91 as well as a PCC160.  I've also used a D2, D6, N/D868, KSM44 and a Pro 35 in various positions but never blocking the port.  All these were to catch the LF. 

Future experimentation will be to try a variation of the LP mount and if I can find or make one, a SubKick.

I thought you'd like the research paper...

I am going to try messing around with whatever battery powered Crown PZMs I can dig up next. Our youth need a portable solution for use playing out during Christmas that fits in the bag has no loose parts and can plug into a random bass amp anywhere even if it doesn't have an XLR or phantom power. If I can't make a battery powered PZM work decently my plan B is a Fishman blender preamp setup with a piezo tuned for an acoustic bass somewhere and their little condenser mic mouted inside.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2014, 10:36:50 AM »

Used a beta 91 inside and an atm450 on the front last night. The drummer specifically asked NOT to have a kick drum sound. The atm450 gave a nice snap to the finger sounds.

Now if I could just decide whether the French horn was stepping on the melodica or if the melodica player was holding back as part of the arrangement.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

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Jay Barracato

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Cajon dynamic/condenser mic?
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2014, 10:36:50 AM »


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