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Author Topic: I can request the electrician to install...  (Read 661 times)

Jeffery Foster

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I can request the electrician to install...
« on: August 13, 2014, 12:43:40 pm »

A local venue is prepping for outdoor shows. I can request what type of electrical to install for us.

The install will be tied into the 200 amp breaker box.

We have three Motion Labs rac pacs with L14-30 ins and thrus.

Therefore, there is no call to request anything larger than a breakered double pole 30a receptacle, correct? Because I have to protect the L14-30s in the rac pacs?

Just making sure my thinking is correct.

Thanks in advance!
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: I can request the electrician to install...
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2014, 12:47:40 pm »

A local venue is prepping for outdoor shows. I can request what type of electrical to install for us.

The install will be tied into the 200 amp breaker box.

We have three Motion Labs rac pacs with L14-30 ins and thrus.

Therefore, there is no call to request anything larger than a breakered double pole 30a receptacle, correct? Because I have to protect the L14-30s in the rac pacs?

Just making sure my thinking is correct.

Thanks in advance!
Are you going to be the only user of this system?  If they are prepping for outdoor shows generally, I would prefer a 50a California or a 14-50R instead of a 14-30.  These are more common, and provide significantly more power.

Answering your question directly - yes, an L14-30 must be connected to a receptacle breakered at 30A, so if you take my advice above, you will need to have an adapter box with a 14-50P using #4 wire to a box with a 30A breaker and your L14-30R.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: I can request the electrician to install...
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2014, 12:56:48 pm »

A local venue is prepping for outdoor shows. I can request what type of electrical to install for us.

The install will be tied into the 200 amp breaker box.

We have three Motion Labs rac pacs with L14-30 ins and thrus.

Therefore, there is no call to request anything larger than a breakered double pole 30a receptacle, correct? Because I have to protect the L14-30s in the rac pacs?

Just making sure my thinking is correct.

Thanks in advance!

Based on the way your phrase your question, I'm thinking you want ONE L14-30R, and plan to loop through the Rack Packs?  Uh... if these are amp racks, I'd want each rack pack on its own 30 amp circuit.

As TJ points out, if you're not the sole user of this venue (and if you are, you won't be in the future) they should be looking at more power than 30 amps.  What is the nature of use?  What kind of program material?
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Jeffery Foster

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Re: I can request the electrician to install...
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2014, 01:31:36 pm »

Excellent advice as always.

Yes, I will need multiple 30a circuits, I misspoke in my OP.

And as much as I would like to be the only provider at this location, we can't sell them all. :)

Thank you again guys.
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Brian Adams

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Re: I can request the electrician to install...
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2014, 11:42:10 pm »

Definitely put in a 50a 125/250v circuit on a 14-50R, it's the de facto standard for bars and small clubs pretty much everywhere in the country. If you want to get crazy and be really prepared put one on each side of the stage, on separate circuits. A California connector would be fine too, although anyone that uses California connectors has a range plug adapter to plug in with, but not typically vice-versa. In my opinion you'll be in good shape if you install a 14-50R (or two).

If the 200a service is solely for this stage, and it's a 3 phase service, put in a 100a and a 200a fused disconnect, in case you get someone with a real distro at the venue.

Also, be sure to put in at least a few (4-6) dedicated standard 20a circuits at strategic points around the stage, for small systems, people without distros, and general purpose stuff like worklights, stand lights, fans, christmas lights, confetti cannons, or whatever crap someone wants to plug in.

I would hate to show up at a venue and only have 3 L14-30's to plug into. In fact, I've never seen a L14-30 installed in a venue, although I was at a tiny place once that had a 14-30R range plug installed. But that was just that one place, one time, otherwise all the small places I know of that have more than just edisons have 14-50R range plugs.

Just out of curiosity, how do you normally plug in your racks? Do you have a larger distro that you typically use? L14-30's are really uncommon in this industry, in my experience.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: I can request the electrician to install...
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2014, 11:46:04 pm »

Just out of curiosity, how do you normally plug in your racks? Do you have a larger distro that you typically use? L14-30's are really uncommon in this industry, in my experience.

They're common among folks that only encounter split phase 120/240v service.
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Brian Adams

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Re: I can request the electrician to install...
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2014, 11:58:36 pm »

They're common among folks that only encounter split phase 120/240v service.

More common than 14-50? 14-50 is all I ever see for the mid-size venues around here (folks that are connecting to split phase power). Depending on the venue, I see either edisons, 50a range, or 3 phase lugs/cams of various sizes, and almost never anything else in between.

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Ray Aberle

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Re: I can request the electrician to install...
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2014, 12:03:09 am »

So if I was making the choices, and could do whatever... and you had 3 service-- I would have installed a 14-50 USR and USL, and 3xL21-30 USC. Then, either carry or have the venue own three L21-30 to L14-30 adapter cables, one going to XY, one to XZ and one to YZ. That way, people coming in with L21-30s in their racks will be able to utilize the service, and you can also use your L14-30s. The L21-30s would be a bit more friendly for larger rigs.

On the other hand, someone coming in with rackpacks with L21-30s probably also are carrying their own distro, and would want to see cams. So, I guess the best thing is for the venue to decide how large of acts they anticipate over the next five years. (Or, you tell them where you expect to expand to. Heh.)

-Ray
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: I can request the electrician to install...
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2014, 12:35:51 am »

More common than 14-50? 14-50 is all I ever see for the mid-size venues around here (folks that are connecting to split phase power). Depending on the venue, I see either edisons, 50a range, or 3 phase lugs/cams of various sizes, and almost never anything else in between.

I didn't say they were commonly installed in venues.  Please don't attribute things I don't say.

A firm that works in venues with only split phase power would be silly to purchase 3 phase distros, L21-30 cabling and 3 phase rack packs.  That's where L14-30 are used and might even be 'common'.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: I can request the electrician to install...
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2014, 03:01:33 pm »

Another thing to keep in mind-if you are actually drawing 30 amps on 120 volts, by the time your cable length gets to 150 feet you need #4 to keep voltage drop to under 3%, so you might be better off with a distro setup on a 14-50 with #4 anyway.  Then too, when your amp draw peaks and you really need the power, so does your voltage drop peak.
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