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Author Topic: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...  (Read 8838 times)

Mike Sokol

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Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« on: July 30, 2014, 05:51:21 PM »

What's wrong with this picture?  :o

Josh Millward

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2014, 06:06:29 PM »

As usual, the one picture does not tell the whole story.

These are actually Electrical Engineering students.

They went to great lengths to make sure this was safe before they did it, but you can't tell that just by looking at this photo. There is a whole write-up somewhere on the internet about what all they did to make sure it was safe. Based on what I read (when I read it several years ago) I figured it sounded safe enough I would probably get into the pool with them.

Things are not always as frighteningly awful as they first appear.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2014, 06:14:00 PM »

What's wrong is that the picture keeps showing up on the www like a bad penny...

I hope they kept themselves safe but the picture without the backstory (on forums other than this) might encourage similar looking but dangerous behavior.

JR

PS: That's a hot tub? They have their own risks...
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Josh Millward

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2014, 06:26:49 PM »

What's wrong is that the picture keeps showing up on the www like a bad penny...

I hope they kept themselves safe but the picture without the backstory (on forums other than this) might encourage similar looking but dangerous behavior.

JR

Yes, it is not a good idea to do this if you do not understand what is going on.

PS: That's a hot tub? They have their own risks...

I'm thinking it could be hot in more than one way.
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Jamin Lynch

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2014, 06:33:36 PM »

What's wrong with this picture?  :o

Glass bottles in the pool...big no no. Wrong kind of beer too
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2014, 12:05:47 AM »

What's wrong with this picture?  :o

That's obvious. A lack of women. (Maybe they are all too smart to participate....)  Mark C.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 09:18:57 AM by Mark Cadwallader »
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2014, 06:20:55 AM »

That's obvious. A lack of women. (Maybe they are all to smart to participate....)  Mark C.

You're right. With all that beer and testosterone one would think the babes would show up.

Steve M Smith

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2014, 08:47:08 AM »

For years it has been a common scenario in movies for an electrical item, usually a toaster, to be dropped into a bathtub in order to electrocute the occupant (either murder or suicide).

I wonder though what the reality is.  With the live connection in close proximaty to the neutral and ground connections, I'm sure it would short out internally and pose no threat at all to the occupant of the bath.

Any real world examples to confirm or bust my thoughts?

(I'm not going to try it!).


Steve.
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Frank DeWitt

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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 10:26:55 AM »

For years it has been a common scenario in movies for an electrical item, usually a toaster, to be dropped into a bathtub in order to electrocute the occupant (either murder or suicide).

I wonder though what the reality is.  With the live connection in close proximaty to the neutral and ground connections, I'm sure it would short out internally and pose no threat at all to the occupant of the bath.

Any real world examples to confirm or bust my thoughts?

(I'm not going to try it!).


Steve.

There was recently a case of flight attendant in China who was electrocuted in the bath by a faulty cell phone charger. Apple went so far as to swap new apple chargers for dubious, apparently pirate ones that were dangerous. 

JR
 

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Mike Sokol

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2014, 10:37:49 AM »

http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/appliances-in-the-bath-minimyth.htm

Confirmed

There's also been a few recent examples of power lines falling into water on the street when a car hit a power pole, which then caused a voltage gradient to reach out a few hundred feet, killing at least one person who tried to help the driver. That's also why you want to have any outdoor metal stages grounded. If it was allowed to be biased to line voltage (120 here and 240 volts in the UK) by something like a pinched extension cord, then someone walking close to the stage while standing in a puddle of water could be electrocuted. I feel it's really important that all outside stages and generators are properly grounded and bonded for this very reason.

Brent Gillespie

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2014, 12:12:49 PM »

As usual, the one picture does not tell the whole story.

These are actually Electrical Engineering students.

They went to great lengths to make sure this was safe before they did it, but you can't tell that just by looking at this photo. There is a whole write-up somewhere on the internet about what all they did to make sure it was safe. Based on what I read (when I read it several years ago) I figured it sounded safe enough I would probably get into the pool with them.



Things are not always as frighteningly awful as they first appear.

As a fulltime Firefighter I experienced a sort of "backlash"  due to a photo I was in a few years back.  Our rig responded to a busy intersection  for some wires down following a brief Summer storm.  On arrival we discovered a power line down and laying across he roof of a few cars at the stoplight.  Of course these people were terrified.  We secured the intersection  and intsructed the motorists to stay in their vehicles. They all complied but remained extremely anxious.  Mind you, we did not approach the cars directly.  We treat evey wire as if it is still energized and untill the utility company advises otherwise.  The power company arrived and cut the wire at the pole.  As the worker was winding the wire up I held it up over the vehicles roofs  while talking with the drivers.  Thats when the local paper decided to take a "cover" picture that ended up in the morning paper.  LOL !!     The pic with me in my gear holding onto a utility wire with it over my head above the motorists  looking as if I'm "saving the day" by holding a live wire !!  LOL .  Our fire chief recieved a number of phone calls that morning wondering what the heck one of his FF's was thinking.   
« Last Edit: July 31, 2014, 12:18:27 PM by Brent Gillespie »
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Hayden J. Nebus

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2014, 01:20:30 PM »

Perhaps the pool is filled with mineral oil (for its dielectric strength), in which case I'm sure most of us would doubly agree with Mark's comment.

I still wouldn't get in.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 01:31:42 PM »

For years it has been a common scenario in movies for an electrical item, usually a toaster, to be dropped into a bathtub in order to electrocute the occupant (either murder or suicide).

I wonder though what the reality is.  With the live connection in close proximaty to the neutral and ground connections, I'm sure it would short out internally and pose no threat at all to the occupant of the bath.

Any real world examples to confirm or bust my thoughts?

(I'm not going to try it!).


Steve.

Depends a lot on the conductivity of the water.  It takes 15 to 20 amps to trip a breaker (or 13 amps to blow a line fuse across the pond) plus the time to trip which varies with conductivity.  It only takes a few milliamps for a very short time to electrocute-there is a big range in conductivity between being able to kill you and being able to trip a breaker.

Reminds me of the guy that was killed a few weeks back showing off his bullet proof vest by getting shot-his friend missed the vest.  Why put yourself in harms way just to be cool and prove a point?
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Mike Sokol

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 04:21:28 PM »

Reminds me of the guy that was killed a few weeks back showing off his bullet proof vest by getting shot-his friend missed the vest.  Why put yourself in harms way just to be cool and prove a point?
I'm no stranger to doing dangerous demonstrations. In my own No~Shock~Zone clinics I often electrify a microphone or guitar or even a 40-ft RV with up to 120-volts on its chassis. But I include a series resistor in the bias path which should limit the current to 5 mA or less, plus I put a GFCI on the incoming line which should trip if there's a fault to ground of more than 5 mA. And yes, it's still possible for something to go wrong, which is why I treat everything as if it could kill me (which it could). But I think it's important to show students how to use something like a NCVT to check for hot mics and guitars due to improper grounding.

Brent: But yes, if it's possible for the press to get a picture of you that's misinterpreted in the worst way possible, then that's what will happen.  ???

Steve M Smith

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 07:31:34 PM »

It takes 15 to 20 amps to trip a breaker (or 13 amps to blow a line fuse across the pond)

We do have RCDs as well as fuses!


Steve.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 09:40:36 AM »

But yes, if it's possible for the press to get a picture of you that's misinterpreted in the worst way possible, then that's what will happen.  ???

A couple years ago, I was following an oversize load down the main drag in our small town.  Noticing he was brushing the street light drops,I wasn't surprised when he snagged one and snapped it.  Being in my work van, I pulled in to the adjacent park, and slipped on some leather gloves.  My observation, as I walked to the wire, told me it was not energized , but I verified with my NCVT anyway,  then pulled the wire off the road.  As I headed back to my van, the local police chief pulled up in his secret service style SUV.  I introduced myself and explained the situation and left.

That evenings paper featured a picture of our local hero on the front page-brave and bare handed removing the hazard to our community from the road.  How it got back on the road I can only guess-it wasn't there when he arrived!

I certainly mean no disrespect to law enforcement/first responders-but we all have our  days!
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Jonathan Kok

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 12:21:08 PM »

You're right. With all that beer and testosterone one would think the babes would show up.

I believe this supplies the answer:

...
These are actually Electrical Engineering students.
...
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2014, 01:56:52 AM »

Without knowing anything about the backstory of the OP photo (beyond what has been posted here), I'd venture that there are two possible conditions (no, make that three conditions) that render it safe:
  • The water is extremely pure, making the resistance high enough that it's virtually an insulator;
  • The water is extremely salty, making the resistance low enough that voltage gradients would be effectively minimized; or
  • The electrical components aren't actually energized. Note that there's nothing in the photo to indicate that it is.
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Frank DeWitt

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2014, 10:37:59 AM »


That evenings paper featured a picture of our local hero on the front page-brave and bare handed removing the hazard to our community from the road.  How it got back on the road I can only guess-it wasn't there when he arrived!


I have had personal knowledge of a few things that were reported in the news.  From this I have come to be leave that the news usually gets the date at the top of the page right.  They also usually.......  Well they get the date right.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2014, 01:37:09 PM »

I have had personal knowledge of a few things that were reported in the news.  From this I have come to be leave that the news usually gets the date at the top of the page right.  They also usually.......  Well they get the date right.

Not always. A community newspaper I subscribe to has even gotten that wrong. (One time, due to an editor/publisher/writer/photographer/janitor's error, an entire page of the previous week's paper got reprinted.)

Cut-and-paste can be your friend, but it's your evil friend.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2014, 02:13:24 PM »

Not always. A community newspaper I subscribe to has even gotten that wrong. (One time, due to an editor/publisher/writer/photographer/janitor's error, an entire page of the previous week's paper got reprinted.)

Cut-and-paste can be your friend, but it's your evil friend.

I have come to the conclusion that humans working at the newspaper no longer read the articles they wrote. Lately I have been seeing homophones appear in articles in the WSJ, a real newspaper. These are words that sound the same but have different meaning, like the reporters literally phoned in their articles and the speech recognition software recognized the wrong words. :-(

JR
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2014, 06:22:55 PM »

I have had personal knowledge of a few things that were reported in the news.  From this I have come to be leave that the news usually gets the date at the top of the page right.  They also usually.......  Well they get the date right.

The local news said some nice things about my wife and I and didn't call me out when I got some folks out of a house fire, I could not find the video they put out, that camera operator was at least not 5'2" shooting my 6'4" head,  I look like Jabba the Hutt with a goiter.

http://goo.gl/jdae3c

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Re: Hot Tub & Beer & Outlets, Oh my...
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2014, 06:22:55 PM »


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