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[Gary Hutz]

HI,

I'll be using an M7CL to mix a theatre show with a live band at the back of the stage. I was thinking of setting up a fixed mix bus to create a band sub group, then delay that group so I can time align the band with the FOH PA. Is there any way of creating a delay in a mix bus internally, or will I have to insert across that mix bus?

I was also thinking of send the mix bus out of a pair of omni outs, use the delay on the omni outs, then bring the 2 outputs back into a spare stereo input.... 

Or could I use the inserts on the mix bus, send them out Omnis with delay there, then back into spare stereo inputs that are assigned to the Mix bus insert path.... will that work? I can't get my hands on the console until next week, so I don't know if I can achieve this before then....

Any thoughts...??

Cheers,

Gary.

[Hayden J. Nebus]

HI,

I'll be using an M7CL to mix a theatre show with a live band at the back of the stage. I was thinking of setting up a fixed mix bus to create a band sub group, then delay that group so I can time align the band with the FOH PA. Is there any way of creating a delay in a mix bus internally, or will I have to insert across that mix bus?

I was also thinking of send the mix bus out of a pair of omni outs, use the delay on the omni outs, then bring the 2 outputs back into a spare stereo input.... 

Or could I use the inserts on the mix bus, send them out Omnis with delay there, then back into spare stereo inputs that are assigned to the Mix bus insert path.... will that work? I can't get my hands on the console until next week, so I don't know if I can achieve this before then....

Any thoughts...??

Cheers,

Gary.

You can just insert a stereo delay from the FX rack.

[Tim McCulloch]

HI,

I'll be using an M7CL to mix a theatre show with a live band at the back of the stage. I was thinking of setting up a fixed mix bus to create a band sub group, then delay that group so I can time align the band with the FOH PA. Is there any way of creating a delay in a mix bus internally, or will I have to insert across that mix bus?

I was also thinking of send the mix bus out of a pair of omni outs, use the delay on the omni outs, then bring the 2 outputs back into a spare stereo input.... 

Or could I use the inserts on the mix bus, send them out Omnis with delay there, then back into spare stereo inputs that are assigned to the Mix bus insert path.... will that work? I can't get my hands on the console until next week, so I don't know if I can achieve this before then....

Any thoughts...??

Cheers,

Gary.

The band is already upstage, behind the PA, right?  You will also need delay the vocals, and maybe practicals and SFX.  Note that any band bleed into the actor's mics will introduce additional electronic delay as well as time-of-flight from the acoustic source (band) to the actor mics.

Hayden has the simplest answer.  Output delay is available only on the physical "Out Port" (my guess is they use a buffer ahead of the DA converter).

[Gary Hutz]

You can just insert a stereo delay from the FX rack.

Yes! Of course. Forgot about that one. I think I was planning to use almost all the fx busses, but I guess I could just use one for this purpose. Thanks!

[Gary Hutz]

The band is already upstage, behind the PA, right?  You will also need delay the vocals, and maybe practicals and SFX.  Note that any band bleed into the actor's mics will introduce additional electronic delay as well as time-of-flight from the acoustic source (band) to the actor mics.

Hayden has the simplest answer.  Output delay is available only on the physical "Out Port" (my guess is they use a buffer ahead of the DA converter).

Thanks for the heads up re spill in to actors mics.... I'll take that into account.

[Tim McCulloch]

Thanks for the heads up re spill in to actors mics.... I'll take that into account.

How?  You can't rewrite the laws of physics.  Every time an actor moves and changes the distance between themselves and the band, whatever delay or other time manipulations (charge the flux capacitor!) you've done will no longer be correct.

What show are you doing?

[Mac Kerr]

How?  You can't rewrite the laws of physics.  Every time an actor moves and changes the distance between themselves and the band, whatever delay or other time manipulations (charge the flux capacitor!) you've done will no longer be correct.

What show are you doing?

The band is upstage. Delaying the band signals in the PA so they reach the audience at the same time as the direct sound from the band will work fine. Band bleed into vocal mics will have acoustic delay due to time of flight between the band and the actor, but not electronic delay, keeping them in time as much as anything is on a live stage.

Mac

[Tim McCulloch]

The band is upstage. Delaying the band signals in the PA so they reach the audience at the same time as the direct sound from the band will work fine. Band bleed into vocal mics will have acoustic delay due to time of flight between the band and the actor, but not electronic delay, keeping them in time as much as anything is on a live stage.

Mac

I'm aware of the 'why', Mac.  I've used the technique.  My point is that if the band is loud enough that delaying the band's mix back to the backline is of significant benefit, the band is loud enough to contribute significant bleed into the actor mics.  The resulting time issues will present new, different problems that are unlikely to be solved on an M7.

[Mac Kerr]

I'm aware of the 'why', Mac.  I've used the technique.  My point is that if the band is loud enough that delaying the band's mix back to the backline is of significant benefit, the band is loud enough to contribute significant bleed into the actor mics.  The resulting time issues will present new, different problems that are unlikely to be solved on an M7.

If the band is upstage, and the actors downstage, the bleed signal is already acoustically delayed by the time of flight to get to the actor's mics. Yes, the position of the actors will change the parameters, but that will happen if don't delay the band as well, but without delay the band will be out of time with itself in addition.

Mac

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