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[Cailen Waddell]

The current wiring may be useful.  If they need smooth dining to zero, it will not happen without separate data and power, or remote ballasts and using the existing wiring to feed the heads (which may be a good option).


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[JeremySParker]

So, how low do you need to go?

Thanks for the explanation, Rob. Your question about how low we need to go is a good one. I need to cycle through the lighting configurations we currently have set up to see what the lowest level is that we have set for each one. It may be later in the week before I'm able to do so, but that should be a good help to the discussion. Just thinking, though, with these lights being over the platform and choir, they're probably the lights that need the most control in our sanctuary, so that may be enough of an issue to keep LEDs from being the "silver bullet" I had hoped they would be.

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

Thanks for the explanation, Rob. Your question about how low we need to go is a good one. I need to cycle through the lighting configurations we currently have set up to see what the lowest level is that we have set for each one. It may be later in the week before I'm able to do so, but that should be a good help to the discussion. Just thinking, though, with these lights being over the platform and choir, they're probably the lights that need the most control in our sanctuary, so that may be enough of an issue to keep LEDs from being the "silver bullet" I had hoped they would be.

They eventually will be, however it may be a fixture or dimmer change to get there.  You haven't posted your exact dimming system model, but it may be worth a call to them to figure out if a module replacement may get you where you need to go.  Here is a tech note that covers a lot of ground, but it has a matrix of which products may have LED-compatible options: http://communities.leviton.com/servlet/JiveServlet/previewBody/2341-102-2-5009/LED_Lighting_Controls_AppNotes%5B1%5D.pdf

[JeremySParker]

You haven't posted your exact dimming system model

Tom, first of all, big thanks for the helpful info! I wasn't sure of the precise model number of our dimmer, but as best I can tell from the looks, it is a Dimensions D4000: http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=38313&minisite=10251. I took the cover off and looked all around yesterday but could not find a model number on the actual device.

Here is a tech note that covers a lot of ground, but it has a matrix of which products may have LED-compatible options: http://communities.leviton.com/servlet/JiveServlet/previewBody/2341-102-2-5009/LED_Lighting_Controls_AppNotes%5B1%5D.pdf

I came across this app note over the weekend and according to the grid on page 3, the Dimensions D4000 does have a "Yes" for the Dimming column - I'm not exactly sure what that means as all of their products have "yes" in that column, though. I assume that simply means they'll dim to the minimum power level required by the bulb and then drop off as has been explained above, but you're right that it's worth giving them a call.

One other bit I'm interested to know: I've seen conflicting reports about whether or not dimmers may cause damage or decrease the life expectancy of LED bulbs. Can anyone provide insight on those facets?

Thanks for all of the help! I feel sure I've come to the right place!

[JeremySParker]

Just wanted to follow up with a few additional insights from a friend I spoke with yesterday who has been in industrial lighting for some time and from the supplier who in case anyone stumbles into this later:

• The LED market isn't quite yet where we need it to be in terms of a solid product that will produce enough lumens at the 40-50 ft. range while still managing heat inside of a can-style track head.
  • This market is changing very quickly, though, so the absence of said product this year doesn't mean that a suitable product won't be available a year or two down the road.
• We can replace our current bulbs with halogen bulbs that will last around 3 years, and these may last even longer if we purchase bulbs for a higher wattage than we need (but still within the 250W threshold of our track heads) and keep them dimmed, as dimming these lights extends their lifetime.
• Once a suitable LED light is available, finding out how it works with our dimmer will probably be a matter of experimentation. The Leviton folks seem reluctant to commit to how a 13-or-so year old controller will work with freshly emerging LED technologies, and I can't say I blame them for that.

So, I don't know where we'll end up, but I'm currently thinking it would be best for us to go with a 3+ year replacement while we wait for the dust to settle on a better-suited product which may just take some experimentation.

Thanks again for all of the help.
Jeremy

[Cailen Waddell]

Just wanted to follow up with a few additional insights from a friend I spoke with yesterday who has been in industrial lighting for some time and from the supplier who in case anyone stumbles into this later:

• The LED market isn't quite yet where we need it to be in terms of a solid product that will produce enough lumens at the 40-50 ft. range while still managing heat inside of a can-style track head.
  • This market is changing very quickly, though, so the absence of said product this year doesn't mean that a suitable product won't be available a year or two down the road.
• We can replace our current bulbs with halogen bulbs that will last around 3 years, and these may last even longer if we purchase bulbs for a higher wattage than we need (but still within the 250W threshold of our track heads) and keep them dimmed, as dimming these lights extends their lifetime.
• Once a suitable LED light is available, finding out how it works with our dimmer will probably be a matter of experimentation. The Leviton folks seem reluctant to commit to how a 13-or-so year old controller will work with freshly emerging LED technologies, and I can't say I blame them for that.

So, I don't know where we'll end up, but I'm currently thinking it would be best for us to go with a 3+ year replacement while we wait for the dust to settle on a better-suited product which may just take some experimentation.

Thanks again for all of the help.
Jeremy

Jeremy

This certainly sounds like the right solution for you, and heat management is a big issue with LEDs.  A friend told me a story about the first led streetlight tests in Arizona.  The engineers wisely put giant heat sinks on the light to help keep it cool.  Unfortunately they were unaware of the adhesive properties of bird excrement.  The heat sinks quickly became clogged and the lights failed. 

For what it's worth, there ARE products out that can completely replace your system.  These may even be a cost savings over a 10 year life when you look at hours of use, costs of replacement lamps, and lift rental, labor, etc.  A good production company that specializes in theatrical and architectural installs should be able to quickly, and at no cost to you, help quantify these numbers and see if it's an option.  It would be worth having these numbers, even so in 3 years you can ask again and see how they have changed.


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