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Kiva,Kilo vs. T-Series, which system would you choose?

I'd chose the L'Acoustics Kiva/Kilo
- 7 (22.6%)
I'd chose the D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
- 9 (29%)
Both systems are equally great within their spectrum.
- 8 (25.8%)
Neither one, there are similar but better systems available.
- 3 (9.7%)
No idea... I am lost... But I'd like to find out.
- 4 (12.9%)

Total Members Voted: 31

Voting closed: August 16, 2014, 10:12:35 AM


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Author Topic: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series  (Read 18020 times)

Kurt Nyberg

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L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« on: July 17, 2014, 10:08:03 AM »

Attention Live Sound Experts and Pro Audio Engineers,

We are intending to procure a compact high end sound reinforcement system for our media and event production company. After extensive research we have concluded that either the L'Acoustics Kiva or the D&B T-Series would suit our applications the best. Event Functions typically ranging from 50-600+ Guests, Indoors and Outdoors, Speech and Music.

The rigs we are looking at are:

L'Acoustics
12 x Kiva
4 x Kilo
4 x SB18
3 x LA4X-CE (or 2 x LA8)

vs.

D&B Audiotechnik
12 x T-10
4 x T-Sub
2 x B2 (or 4 x B4)
2 x D80

QUESTION - As per your opinion which system is better and why?

Here are the links to the two systems:

L'Acoustics from France
http://www.l-acoustics.com/products-kiva-31.html

D&B Audiotechnik from Germany
http://www.dbaudio.com/systems/category/series/black-range/t-series.html

Furthermore, should you have any other suggestions or comparisons i.e. similar products from other brands please do let us know why you'd chose it over the above systems.

Thank you in advance
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 07:02:21 PM by Kurt Nyberg »
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Mark Rombouts

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 12:00:31 PM »

I would go with L-Acoustics. Both systems are very good. But I like the sound of L-Acoustics Kiva better than the German option.

Maybe you should have a look at the SB15m subwoofer. Very nice package with Kiva, much beter than de Kilo in my opinion.

I think I would go with LA8 amplifiers instead of LA4(x). More power from the same compact system.

12 Kiva
2 x SB15 (or even 4)
4 x SB18
can run on only 2 LA8 amplifiers.
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Kurt Nyberg

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 01:27:50 PM »

Thanks for your advise Mark.

I had heard that the Kiva has a slightly higher output and a warmer sound
however that might also depend on the amps used etc.  To combine the Kiva with the SB15m's is a good idea...

What I like about the D&B T-Series is that the T10's can be converted to point source and in combination with their D80 the rig becomes a rather smart setup that can be controlled wirelessly via i-pad.

Do you have any suggestions in regards to any other brand that has similar compact line array's with maybe an even better sound? I.e. how does Nexus, Meyer, Adamson compare ?
   
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 03:58:22 AM by Cord Nieberg »
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Kurt Nyberg

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 06:04:18 PM »

That's a nice D&B T-Series setup.

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Chris White

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2014, 12:24:37 AM »

We have the Adamson Spektrix boxes and I have been really impressed with the low frequency extension for such a small box. We power ours with the PLM10000Q and they are a perfect match.

You may want to look into getting a demo of the Metrix Boxes. The only thing is the Adamson boxes are 5 degree vertical for the standard and 15 degree for the wave downfill boxes. Which means they cant be used as a point source like the T10.


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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2014, 03:59:54 AM »

I think the T sounds quite a lot better than the Kiva. And if you do go Kiva, don't buy the Kilo (which are completely useless) and buy the SB15M instead.

However, the Kiva goes a lot louder...
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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2014, 04:06:47 AM »

For the french solution you should really take the LA8 - and btw: with their "network manager" they have a fine remote control software.

A rather different approach would be the Martin-Audio MLAmini, I only heard it's larger brothers, but they are outstanding.
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Kurt Nyberg

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2014, 02:51:21 AM »

Thank you all for your time and advise.

Looking at the poll and your comments it seems that we won't make a mistake in any case, whether we procure the L'Acoustics or the D&B Audiotechnik system. Both systems seem to be top of the line mini line array solutions.

I personally do prefer the ergonomics and design of the L'Acoustics Kiva but I equally fancy the practicality and point source capability of the T-Series and the advanced technology of D&B's high end D80 amplifiers. There will be a new LA4X and LA8X amplification available for L'Acoustics early next year and the network manager provides equal flexibility and remote control anyway.

In conclusion, it will likely depend on the best offer and dry hire facilities in my area. That said I will have a look at the Martin Audio and the Nexus Geo's but
in Dubai nearly every rental company stocks L'Acoustics, Meyer Sound or D&B Audiotechnik while Martin Audio, Nexus and Adamson are not very common here.

I will post an update on our final decision as well as a system review.

Kind Regards
 
PS: If you have any further suggestions or comments... please shoot...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2015, 07:02:46 PM by Kurt Nyberg »
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Daniel Ravald

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2014, 06:11:28 AM »

I recently listened to Coda Audio's Viray and got really impressed. IMO it sounded better than Kiva.
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Kurt Nyberg

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 02:45:23 PM »

Well gentleman, thank you all for your kind replies.

I need to mention that we haven't got any system at this stage. At present we are frequently renting anything from small Meyer UPJ's and L'Acoustics XT etc. to larger LA systems with technicians etc.

Locally labor is cheap however the hardware is rather costly to rent and it significantly reduces our overall margins to rent equipment while it results in unnecessary dependencies and complications.

Our winning brands are D&B or L'Acoustics and we have now broadened our horizon a little to the below:

D&B Audiotechnik
T Series = Ups: Compact, Flexible, Point Source | Downs: Not as Powerful
Q Series = Ups: Flexible, Point Source | Downs: Complicated
V Series = Ups: Powerful | Downs: More Complicated, Less Flexible
E Series = Ups: Very Flexible | Downs: Not as Powerful, Only Near-field

L'Acoustics
Kiva, Kilo = Ups: Compact, Flexible, Point Source | Downs: Not as Powerful
ARCS2, Wide/Focus = Ups: Powerful, Simple | Downs: Heavy
XT, P = Ups: Compact, Flexible | Downs: Not as Powerful, Only Near-field

While we love the Kiva we feel that the ARCS2 are easier to handle and deliver a better punch only beaten by the V's from D&B Audio. The Kiva or the ARCS would ideally be supplemented with XT or P's and equally the T or V could be supplemented with the E-Series.

Main question for us at the moment: Kiva or ARCS with XT.
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Christopher Irwin

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2014, 03:55:21 PM »


D&B Audiotechnik
T Series = Ups: Compact, Flexible, Point Source | Downs: Not as Powerful
Q Series = Ups: Flexible, Point Source | Downs: Complicated
V Series = Ups: Powerful | Downs: More Complicated, Less Flexible
E Series = Ups: Very Flexible | Downs: Not as Powerful, Only Near-field


I just added my vote for the D&B system.  The T10's are very versatile which is extremely nice when dealing with smaller/mid-sized events.  The university I work for owns (22) T10's and (4) B2's and we love the system.  We use the T10's in point source mode quite often for fills or very small events.  We also use clusters of (3) T10's on speaker stands a fair amount for the 100-400 person events and in locations where it is difficult and/or costly to fly an array.

I have installed E12's and E8's in multiple buildings on campus and love them as well, however, the T10's have more HF response than the E series, so if used together there needs to be some eq to match the sound (simple to do with the D&B amps).

I'm personally not as big a fan of the Q series, though they still sound great.  I haven't used the V series, but I tried out a Vsub and was extremely impressed, especially with the cardiod pattern and how much quieter it was behind the sub.  I would probably buy VSubs over the B2's, so definitely give that some consideration if you go the D&B route.
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Matt Vivlamore

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 09:23:30 AM »

What else does your shop carry?  For PA & Amps.

I would lean toward the manufacture that I've been buying into for the other gear. 

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roberto petruzzelli

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 06:18:30 AM »

I just added my vote for the D&B system.  The T10's are very versatile which is extremely nice when dealing with smaller/mid-sized events.  The university I work for owns (22) T10's and (4) B2's and we love the system.  We use the T10's in point source mode quite often for fills or very small events.  We also use clusters of (3) T10's on speaker stands a fair amount for the 100-400 person events and in locations where it is difficult and/or costly to fly an array.

I have installed E12's and E8's in multiple buildings on campus and love them as well, however, the T10's have more HF response than the E series, so if used together there needs to be some eq to match the sound (simple to do with the D&B amps).

I'm personally not as big a fan of the Q series, though they still sound great.  I haven't used the V series, but I tried out a Vsub and was extremely impressed, especially with the cardiod pattern and how much quieter it was behind the sub.  I would probably buy VSubs over the B2's, so definitely give that some consideration if you go the D&B route.

Totally agree with you. Morover consider also the weight (1 T series speaker wheigt is 11 kilos) and the hardware to mantle the system that in the case of D&B is absolutely better in any sense: quality, easy manage, materials etc)
My suggestion goes to the d20 amplifiers because with two of that, 4 sub and 8 speakers, you will have in the reality bot 2 sysstems good for rooms to 500 people (2 sub + 2 poitsource + 2 front fill (or 4 pointsource) or putting everything together a FOH able to produce the right SPL for an audience of 1.500 people (live etc)
In the other hand LAcoustic is for sure a good soution but is just a question of "taste" and not of loud in my opinion.. i mean: to amplify jazz i vote D&B as per doing conferences.. if Viceversa you do Rock or DJ probably better LA
What is really stunning in the case of D&B is the cardiod subwoofer where you will have the stage completely clean, it's really stunning, check ite befor thinking to any other solution because there is no Matin or adamson or LA or whatever with the same feature
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Steve Eudaly

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 09:15:09 AM »

I'm a big fan of d&b's system design philosophy. Good measurements and proper use of ArrayCalc lead to consistently excellent results when using the right box for the application. I spent a bit of time with L'Acoustics Soundvision before going d&b with our company and I found ArrayCalc/R1 much easier to use.

T-series is a big long in the tooth at this point, so at the risk of adding another suggestion to your ever growing list of products to pick from, I'd really recommend checking out Y-series. You mentioned V, but that's a big jump up from T, and Y kind of fills that gap. It does not feature the dual purpose "point or line" source design, but the Y-series point source boxes like the Y10P are fantastic utility boxes for fills to supplement the line array systems or serve as mains on smaller events.

This is all regionally dependant based on who your reps are, but through the bidding and purchasing process we received much better service from d&b. We looked at half a dozen other "big boy brands" and nobody even came close. The d&b folks took time to really understand what we wanted to do with our business and designed a system that would help us accomplish our goals. That service and attention to our needs has only continued to improve now that we are owners.

As you've already seen from previous comments, there are lots of great options at this level of gear. A lot of it comes down to personal preference and regional factors, but I am quite confident you'll be very happy going d&b.

Ray Aberle

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 09:19:07 AM »

Totally agree with you. Morover consider also the weight...
Welcome to the forums! As you should have noticed, one of our policies for participation is that your Display Name does need to be your Real, Full Name. Would you pop into your profile and ensure that your Display Name does indeed reflect your Real, Full Name? Spaces always help make it clear...

Thanks!

Ray

(And responding to a 3-year-old thread regarding speaker choices... making a suggestion at this point is probably irrelevant as the OP has MOST LIKELY already pulled the trigger on something. The only time it's good to revive an old thread like this is when you're in the same position, i.e. "I'm looking to buy the same system-- are there other, newer options I should be looking at?")
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Steve Eudaly

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2017, 10:30:53 AM »

Welcome to the forums! As you should have noticed, one of our policies for participation is that your Display Name does need to be your Real, Full Name. Would you pop into your profile and ensure that your Display Name does indeed reflect your Real, Full Name? Spaces always help make it clear...

Thanks!

Ray

(And responding to a 3-year-old thread regarding speaker choices... making a suggestion at this point is probably irrelevant as the OP has MOST LIKELY already pulled the trigger on something. The only time it's good to revive an old thread like this is when you're in the same position, i.e. "I'm looking to buy the same system-- are there other, newer options I should be looking at?")

Oh man, I really need to get better at checking thread dates before I get so excited about a "new" topic coming to life.

Ray Aberle

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2017, 10:41:44 AM »

Oh man, I really need to get better at checking thread dates before I get so excited about a "new" topic coming to life.
:)

For the record, I was responding to the person who revived the thread; your post came in while I was typing mine. So my bit in parentheses wasn't aimed at you!

-Ray
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Doug Fowler

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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2017, 11:28:58 AM »

Oh man, I really need to get better at checking thread dates before I get so excited about a "new" topic coming to life.

Better yet, don't respond to posts not complying with the name requirement.
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Re: L' Acoustics Kiva,Kilo vs. D&B Audiotechnik T-Series
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2017, 11:28:58 AM »


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