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Author Topic: No drums in the mix  (Read 11961 times)

Scott Olewiler

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No drums in the mix
« on: July 16, 2014, 06:13:10 AM »

Got a call on Sunday July 6 to quote a price on specific system for an all day benefit for veterans on July 12th. After getting some more details about the event I informed the event coordinator that they needed to find someone with a much larger system than I could offer. (I was also way to tied up with other projects that week to prepare for this show or to try and locate equipment to rent). Fortunately they found someone to donate their time and equipment.

Event day comes and it's nice day for a motorcycle ride, so a couple of us jump on our bikes and head over. As we're parking our bikes I can hear the 2nd performer, a solo guitarist and the sound in the parking lot is amazing. We walk over to the stage and I see (4) Bag End cabinets(2 12" with the center horn)  on each side of the stage 2 over 2. Great glad to see they got a properly sized system for the event.  And it sounds great.

The first act, which we missed, was a 5 piece country band and that drummer donated his kit for the whole day, so the kit is already mic'd up and had been used for at least one set. The acoustic guy finishes his set and the next act up is a Blue band. They launch into their first song and there's no drums other than kick (which is too low IMO) in the mix. I mean I could barely hear a snare drum from the stage and I could literally see the guy playing the toms and couldn't hear them. I was not more than 40 ft from the stage directly in front of the stacks. Pretty much all I hear is very loud guitar and vocal, with keys and bass kind of buried in the mix. Not horrible but not even.

Mixer is at the side of the stage so I'm waiting for the sound guy to walk out, which he eventually does; stands in front of the stage not far from me and I'm thinking, OK, he'll fix that. He walks back to board and starts to have a conversation with the rest of the sound crew with his back to the stage. Sometime during the 4th song he non-chalantly starts bringing the drums up. Remember, this kit was already used for an entire set just as it sat by an earlier act. Who apparently had no drums in their mix.

I'm just flabbergasted at his lack of concern about the mix. It obvious from his body language that there is not a problem, he just didn't bother bring the drums up until 1/3 of the way into the third act's set. This system sounds great, and I feel bad for these local guys on stage who probably never get to play with a system this good who are getting a bad mix. Worse yet, is the fact that most of the the headline act is in the audience because they have a little fan tent set up and they're hearing the same thing I am. I can see them talking among themselves and pointing at the stage.

I have done all day events myself and I'm about to do another one in a few weeks and I just can't imagine not giving every band in the line-up the best possible mix I can regardless of whether they are the first act or the headliner. Because I play as well as mix I rarely get to go out and hear other bands, so I really hope this isn't par for the course for festival type gigs. We've all had gigs with no sound check, and I've seen headliner BEs screw the opening act deliberately, but this IMHO was someone just not caring about the mix. Very sad.
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We're here to deliver the sound equipment. Who has the check?

Tim McCulloch

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2014, 08:57:03 AM »

The event got what they paid for.  No excuse for the drum thing, but no recourse, either.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2014, 10:34:02 AM »

Fortunately they found someone to donate their time and equipment.


That says it all right there.  Charity events like this BLOW.  When you get beat up to provide your services for free, it's hard to care that much.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2014, 10:39:11 AM »

That says it all right there.  Charity events like this BLOW.  When you get beat up to provide your services for free, it's hard to care that much.

They're not all bad.  I did an all day charity gig a couple of weeks ago.

It helps if you know the organiser and all of the musicians - and if all the equipment is borrowed and is already there!


Steve.
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Tom Roche

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2014, 01:57:10 PM »

They're not all bad.  I did an all day charity gig a couple of weeks ago.

It helps if you know the organiser and all of the musicians - and if all the equipment is borrowed and is already there!


Steve.
Agreed.

These problems happen at paid events, too.  I've heard/seen more than my fair share of the same problem that Scott mentions in his post....drums buried deep in the mix.  Usually I can only hear/feel bass drum.  No cymbals, no toms, very little snare.  It's so common I figured it was a common mindset with sound engineers.
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Steve Kennedy-Williams

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2014, 06:28:59 PM »

Agreed.

These problems happen at paid events, too.  I've heard/seen more than my fair share of the same problem that Scott mentions in his post....drums buried deep in the mix.  Usually I can only hear/feel bass drum.  No cymbals, no toms, very little snare.  It's so common I figured it was a common mindset with sound engineers.

Sounds like an engineer used to mixing a small venue...

... and with a listening problem.  ::)
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Jay Barracato

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2014, 06:47:49 PM »

The event got what they paid for.  No excuse for the drum thing, but no recourse, either.

Worrying about what someone else is doing while they are mixing is a losing proposition on all sides.

There was a time when I let it suck most of the fun of live music out of the events I was attending, then I decided that wasn't the result I wanted.

My attitude now is to find something enjoyable about every show. If I can't find anything at all, then I leave.

I think every tech should spend some time as a Band engineer and gain experience in getting a consistent show on a variety of equipment, and then they should spend some time as a system tech and gain experience in what it takes to provide a system that makes it easy for a visiting tech to have an easy show.
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Tom Roche

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2014, 06:49:04 PM »

Sounds like an engineer used to mixing a small venue...

... and with a listening problem.  ::)
Yeah, either that or no comprehension of balance and/or how instruments are supposed to sound.
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Alex Rigodanzo

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2014, 09:16:39 PM »

Just saw Darius Rucker headline the Hodag festival in Rhinelander WI.  A hint of snare was all that came thru the mains. Sometimes when things were quiet a bit of kick made it through but that was it.  You also didn't hear lead guitar, fiddle or keyboard unless they were playing a solo.  Nice and strong then but buried as soon as their solo was over.  I know people come to hear him sing, but damn, there's more to those songs and the other musicians working their butts off deserve to be heard too.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 09:50:16 PM »

Just saw Darius Rucker headline the Hodag festival in Rhinelander WI.  A hint of snare was all that came thru the mains. Sometimes when things were quiet a bit of kick made it through but that was it.  You also didn't hear lead guitar, fiddle or keyboard unless they were playing a solo.  Nice and strong then but buried as soon as their solo was over.  I know people come to hear him sing, but damn, there's more to those songs and the other musicians working their butts off deserve to be heard too.

We've done a couple of shows with Rucker and I don't recall that much of an imbalance.  I found the mix to be very 'vocal-forward' but the band mix wasn't bad at all.  Perhaps the guy he had back then got fired for over-mixing the band, or artist management got involved - we know what wizards of music and technology most of them are...

Two or 3 times a year we have a run on "I was at the XYZ show and the mix sucked" threads.  I don't hear as many terrible mixes as I did 6 or 7 years ago; pre-recession it seemed like every support act (no matter if they were the 4th support on a 4 band bill) carried a mixerperson.  A few of them were tragically terrible and a few were pretty good, but the bell curve of mediocrity was stuck at the lower end of middle.  These days I hear better mixes, the bell curve seems to be at middle or maybe a little higher.  Up the food chain there are some really good guys and gals mixing and the quality of middle seems better.

I agree with Jay B.... it's not easy to separate the professional from the personal.  It's taken me a long time to ignore audio issues I'm not in control of.
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

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Re: No drums in the mix
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2014, 09:50:16 PM »


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