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Author Topic: Small PA thoughts  (Read 13941 times)

Dave Horo

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Small PA thoughts
« on: July 14, 2014, 04:31:39 PM »

I'm putting together a small PA that will be used exclusively by a vocal-based pop act to play everything from < 100-person clubs to outdoor fairs and festivals of about 500.  Figure a max throw of about 80' with people right up in front of the stacks.  System will always be stacked... never flown, so pole-mounting or some other rigging arrangement is needed to get the boxes up high.

The goal is to have a system that is relatively small, light and easy to setup, power and use that still has flexibility to do shows of varying sizes and requirements.  Assume that any larger shows will be covered by some other PA, so it's very unlikely that boxes will be added to the system in the future. (i.e. I don't need a 16-box line array that I can put on sticks on occasion.)

Budget is roughly around $15k.  (just stacks and racks)

My original thought was something like 2 x QSC KW153s and subs per side.  It would provide the coverage and SPL required but it's a lot of drivers, boxes, etc.  Comb filtering is likely to be an issue with the tops.  Active boxes are nice.

The next thought in point-and-shoot would be the d&b Q10 + Q-sub.  I know I'm taking a step up in price and quality (which is fine), but I would drop down to one of each box per side to make it work.  This fixes the comb filtering and trucking problems... but is one box per side going to to do what I need for coverage and SPL?

Then there's the line array on a stick.  I wasn't originally thinking that a LA was the right tool for the job, but the ability to shade the boxes will be a nice option in longer-throw situations.  Plus, they will generally truck and setup easier since they are smaller and lighter.

There's the d&b T10 and sub (T-sub, B4), which I think would work well, but would blow the budget to get enough boxes and power to really make it work.

That makes the main contenders the QSC KLA12, db Tech T8 and RCF HDL10A.  I've heard and liked the KLA, but with more boxes.  Haven't listened to the T8, but heard great things about it. 

Any opinions on this options above?  Is there anything else I should be looking at?  Am I missing any other decision-making points?
 - Dave
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 11:50:07 PM by Dave Horo »
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Mike Pyle

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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 04:54:26 AM »

l'll trot this pic out once again. Simple & potent small club system. BassBoss AT212 (90 degree) over XSP218.

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Jason Raboin

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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 10:38:23 AM »

A Fulcrum Acoustics FA12AC over TS215AC per side would do well.
A Danley SM80 over TH118 would also be a good solution.

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Adam Greene

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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 10:52:48 AM »

I'm always looking affordable.  Nothing wrong with the high end and botique manufactures.  That being said another option is the new Electro-Voice ETX line of powered boxes.  I have both ELX and ZLX boxes for monitors and the ETX are the new flagship of that series.  They are a little pricier than QSC, but if I could afford them...
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Dave Horo

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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 11:50:16 AM »

These are good suggestions, but maybe I need to ask a more basic question before getting in to particular manufacturers or models.

The consensus seems to be for point & shoot boxes... is that what everyone uses for this application?  In other words, the "dash" array would only be considered if you already had the boxes for a larger array.  It's not ideal but gives flexibility so you don't have to buy extra boxes.

For point source boxes my concern is comb filtering if I need more than one box per side to get the desired coverage or output.

For the Danley, Fulcrum and ETX systems... have you used them at outdoor events for ~500 people with live pop/rock music?  If so, can I get by with 1 top and 1 sub per side?  Appropriately sizing the system is one of my biggest concerns.
 - Dave
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Jason Raboin

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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 12:00:19 PM »

For what you describe I would do point source, one per side, with front fills.
I use Fulcrum FA22AC.  The largest show I have used them for so far was Lake Street Dive at a benefit with around 500 people spread out sitting on blankets.  I listened at the back of the listening area - 135', and it sounded great.  I use FA12 for monitors but have used them for mains on smaller shows.  I would feel confident using them out to 80'.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 01:26:52 PM »

For point source boxes my concern is comb filtering if I need more than one box per side to get the desired coverage or output.

Don't worry about it too much.  People have been putting speakers next to each other for years.


Steve.
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Dave Horo

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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 02:32:02 PM »

Don't worry about it too much.  People have been putting speakers next to each other for years.

Very good point.

But with some of these higher-end systems, can I get away with 1 box instead of 2 for my application?  Then I don't need to worry about it at all.

In other words does 1 Fulcrum FA22ac = 2 KW153, or thereabouts? in terms of output level and coverage.  If so, it would be a great tradeoff.
 - Dave
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Mike Christy

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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 03:02:00 PM »

Very good point.

But with some of these higher-end systems, can I get away with 1 box instead of 2 for my application?  Then I don't need to worry about it at all.

In other words does 1 Fulcrum FA22ac = 2 KW153, or thereabouts? in terms of output level and coverage.  If so, it would be a great tradeoff.
 - Dave

I heard a KW153 system last weekend, Personally I'd pass on them.

The number of boxes has more to do with coverage, not necessarily SPL, right?

The system I just used last weekend was 2 tops over 2 subs a side, over 500 peeps outside. I have to thank the box designer for making the mix sound so good, 5 of the 6 touring bands made a special trip to FOH to commend me on the mix, it wasn't just my fader movements.

PM me and ill give you details on the rig, it's in your budget, and I can give you references.

Mike


Mike
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Robert Piascik

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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 05:36:54 PM »

A Danley SM80 over TH118 would also be a good solution.

+1 on this suggestion

I have this set up and it is fantastic! Easy to deploy, sounds big and great. Biggest problem I run into is people who "hear" with their "eyes". They can't believe such a small system can sound so good and loud. No complicated processing either, I couldn't be happier with this set up.
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Re: Small PA thoughts
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 05:36:54 PM »


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