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Author Topic: Pondering reverb considerations  (Read 980 times)

jason misterka

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Re: Pondering reverb considerations
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2014, 07:35:28 am »



And almost without exception, FX that sound balanced in the PA mix, are too wet in the recorded mix.  ::)

GTD

Yeah, and I hate it.  Because 1) you can't mix exactly to taste and have the board tape happy, and 2) if you are going to use a nice pleasant dose of reverb you really need to consistantly keep track of it in the cans, FX that sound passable on the PA may have some not so pleasant surprises when you listen to them later.

Anyone have any really good reason why this phenomenon occurs? I haven't been able to settle on a reason that is 100% convincing to my brain.  And yes, I have a stereo PA so it is not that I am summing a stereo reverb into a mono space, etc.

Jason
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Geoff Doane

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Re: Pondering reverb considerations
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2014, 10:06:52 am »

Yeah, and I hate it.  Because 1) you can't mix exactly to taste and have the board tape happy, and 2) if you are going to use a nice pleasant dose of reverb you really need to consistantly keep track of it in the cans, FX that sound passable on the PA may have some not so pleasant surprises when you listen to them later.

Anyone have any really good reason why this phenomenon occurs? I haven't been able to settle on a reason that is 100% convincing to my brain.  And yes, I have a stereo PA so it is not that I am summing a stereo reverb into a mono space, etc.

I think the reason that it happens is that we usually have some natural room reverb to overcome in most venues, so there is more in the PA mix than the recorded mix needs.  This theory is supported somewhat by the fact that the problem isn't so much a problem when mixing outdoors.  It may also have something to do with having to over ride the acoustic spill off the stage, also not so much of a problem outdoors.

I get around it by cheating the FX levels on the PA bus compared to the record bus.  Maybe 3 dB louder to the PA than the record.  For a dual PA setup you have to come up with some way to "combine" the two stereo stems anyway.  It takes some experimentation to find out what works, and in what venues.

GTD
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jason misterka

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Re: Pondering reverb considerations
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2014, 12:18:56 pm »

I think the reason that it happens is that we usually have some natural room reverb to overcome in most venues, so there is more in the PA mix than the recorded mix needs.  This theory is supported somewhat by the fact that the problem isn't so much a problem when mixing outdoors.  It may also have something to do with having to over ride the acoustic spill off the stage, also not so much of a problem outdoors.

I get around it by cheating the FX levels on the PA bus compared to the record bus.  Maybe 3 dB louder to the PA than the record.  For a dual PA setup you have to come up with some way to "combine" the two stereo stems anyway.  It takes some experimentation to find out what works, and in what venues.

GTD

I just finished a three day out door festival, and had the same problem there as indoors.  I'm not sure I agree with that assessment.

Since I derive mains, subs, fronts, and recording from the Matrix I probably could use that trick.

Jason
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Jim McKeveny

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Re: Pondering reverb considerations
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 12:54:01 pm »

The background noise floor is higher when the FX are rendered, therefore the threshold of FX perception is higher, therefore the levels seem to high when listening to the board recording.
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Jim Turner

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Re: Pondering reverb considerations
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2014, 07:41:07 pm »

FX that sound balanced in the PA mix, are too wet in the recorded mix


Because the FX are only in the mix...
not blazing off the stage like the racket the "musicians" produce...
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smile & wave...
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