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Author Topic: THIS is why.....  (Read 2933 times)

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #30 on: July 14, 2014, 10:46:20 am »

I suspect the scarcity of automatic transmissions in Europe is (was) related to efficiency and gas mileage. It was common knowledge that automatic transmissions had losses from slippage. Back in the day automatic transmissions  had their own radiator, or coil in the main radiator to remove heat from the transmission. IIRC some (all) of the old automatic transmissions would lock in high gear but were lossy in the lower gears.

For drag racing gas mileage is not much of a concern and seamless shifting, without missed gears is a huge benefit. I recall laughing at the mopars with their pushbutton shifters, but they won enough races to stop the laughter.

I have actually avoided buying otherwise fine cars that I could not get in a standard transmission model. I don't mind driving an automatic rental, but it just seems like you have more control of your world with stick.

I expect the modern automatics to be more efficient by now, some are just sticks with solenoid clutches. I vaguely recall at least one car from back in the early 50's(?) when automatic transmission were still brand new, that required using the clutch to get started in low gear, then allowed shifting without the clutch for the higher gears.

I think I could live without a clutch driving my Tesla...now I just need somebody to give me a Tesla.  ;D

JR   
 
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David Morison

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #31 on: July 15, 2014, 04:36:14 pm »

It might also be useful for getting home from the bar after a few. I think I drive better after a few but legal officials disagree. Reaction times are slowed, but the same thing happened when I got old. Lucky for me I did a lot of training with my reaction times impaired by spirits, so I am ready.  8)

JR

Fun fact - modest amounts do actually speed up reaction times.
Reason being, different parts of the brain respond to it at different rates, and the more conscious/rational/analytical parts succumb earlier than the more instinctive/animal parts, so if you get the dose right you can react quicker as you just don't think about it as much.

Course, don't tell the cops I said so...  ;)

David.
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Tom Roche

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #32 on: July 15, 2014, 04:48:56 pm »

PS: While i don't advice doing this you can shift between gears without using a clutch by syncing up engine speed. It's easy to get out of gear by matching engine speed so you are not speeding up or slowing down with no tension on the transmission it is easy to pop it into neutral. Getting into the next gear is harder.  You kind of need to estimate the proper engine speed for the next gear then jam it in... It works, but it is not recommended if you have a working clutch. OTOH if you have just blown your clutch into a million pieces so it will never disengage, and you have miles to go to get home, you do what you gotta do. Getting into first gear from a dead stop is a bitch... If you have a strong enough starter you can start it up in first gear. Or have some friends get you rolling (park on a hill)... Once you are rolling you don't want to stop so avoid stop lights.  ;D 

I hadn't heard about this until the clutch pedal in my Jeep broke while I was on Metal Masher trail in Moab, UT.  Fortunately, Jeeps also have high torque starters that allow you start the engine in 1st gear and go on your way.  When on an extremely steep incline you had better make sure the transfer case is in 4-low.  It's a little scarey to transition between letting off the brake and when the starter gets the motor running and your rig moving.

Anyway, I had about a two hour crawl off the rocks to get back to the highway and then a short 10-15 minute drive back to the town of Moab.  This is how I learned to speed-shift.  Once you get the hang of it (suppose each vehicle is different), it's easy to guessimate the RPM to make a clean shift.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 06:52:17 pm by Tom Roche »
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #33 on: July 15, 2014, 05:37:26 pm »

I don't know speed shifting but back in the day we used to do a thing we called "power-shifting". Basically you hold the skinny pedal pegged to the floor boards and just blip the clutch while shifting as fast as you can.

This can be rough on the engine if you miss a gear and it over-revs.  ::)

This generally worked better with 4 speed transmissions and 2nd to 3rd on 3 speeds since to shift gears you were only sliding the relatively low mass syncro collar a fraction of an inch. Shifting first to second gear on a 3 speed involved moving the much heavier, higher mass actual 1st/reverse gear a further distance. I could never shift 1st to 2nd fast enough to stay on full pedal. Going into 2nd was not hard but getting the heavy 1st gear to stop in the neutral middle position when shifting that fast was the problem.  :o 

I actually broke one Hurst floor shifter, and one transmission cover plate from trying to shift faster that the connected hardware would accommodate.  ;D I broke clutch linkages too but that was a different problem. The stock pressure plate had centrifugal assist, counter weights used to provide more pressure plate force at higher RPM, and was designed for nominal 4,700 RPM red line. I was shifting up closer to 7,000 rpm and had to replace my bent/broken clutch linkages more than once.



my old '54.... killing mosquitos.

JR

PS: I recall diving a jeep around in the army... when you get stuck in the mud, you just put it in low low range and get out to push.
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Tom Roche

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #34 on: July 15, 2014, 07:04:20 pm »

I don't know speed shifting... 

It's probably the wrong term, but the one used by the guys on the trail when the clutch pedal broke in my Jeep.  They explained how I can shift w/o using the clutch when the RPM is right.
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Jeff Bankston

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2014, 12:28:46 am »

when i found a clutch pedal and linkage i converted my  66 wagon to a 4 speed schtick. behold !
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2014, 01:37:00 am »

when i found a clutch pedal and linkage i converted my  66 wagon to a 4 speed schtick. behold !

What's with the 70's vintage Motorola 2 way radio speaker?
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Scott AKA Skyking
Passion Fuel Productions, Cleveland OH

Jeff Bankston

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2014, 04:38:32 am »

What's with the 70's vintage Motorola 2 way radio speaker?
its an extension speaker for the uniden cb radio mointed above it. that one had a new speaker in it. 550 dynoed hp headers , edelbrock rpm race mufflers and a pipe poking out in front of each rear tire can be a bit loud. check out the Wilson 5000 center load cb antenna on the right rear corner.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2014, 10:35:47 am »

It's probably the wrong term, but the one used by the guys on the trail when the clutch pedal broke in my Jeep.  They explained how I can shift w/o using the clutch when the RPM is right.

No worries, it's as good a name for it as any...

JR

PS: One of my earlier cars was 54 ford station wagon, and that one wouldn't light up the tires like my coupe would because of the extra weight over the rear end.  I did break a drive shaft with it once (actually broke the universal joint). 
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2014, 11:01:51 am »

I suspect the scarcity of automatic transmissions in Europe is (was) related to efficiency and gas mileage. It was common knowledge that automatic transmissions had losses from slippage. Back in the day automatic transmissions  had their own radiator, or coil in the main radiator to remove heat from the transmission. IIRC some (all) of the old automatic transmissions would lock in high gear but were lossy in the lower gears.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do not believe this is the case with modern 6-speed autos.  Here is a snip from the specs page for the BMW 328 - one of the few vehicles I know of that can still be ordered with a manual transmission.  The auto version has [slightly] better mileage both city and highway. 

I suspect even 10 years ago with 5-speed autos the difference between auto and manual may have been either even or slightly favoring an auto, since the average manual driver either likes the fun of the shifting and isn't exactly eco-minded in their driving style, and/or are simply not as good at shifting as a highly optimized auto.
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