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Author Topic: THIS is why.....  (Read 7642 times)

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2014, 11:21:09 am »

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do not believe this is the case with modern 6-speed autos.  Here is a snip from the specs page for the BMW 328 - one of the few vehicles I know of that can still be ordered with a manual transmission.  The auto version has [slightly] better mileage both city and highway. 

I suspect even 10 years ago with 5-speed autos the difference between auto and manual may have been either even or slightly favoring an auto, since the average manual driver either likes the fun of the shifting and isn't exactly eco-minded in their driving style, and/or are simply not as good at shifting as a highly optimized auto.

I do not disagree regarding modern technology. The automotive industry has been under intense government pressure to improve fleet mileage for decades. The old school lossy automatic transmission was probably easy to improve upon.

That's why I said economy " is (was)"  the reason instead of just is the reason. 

JR
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Tommy Peel

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2014, 12:32:29 pm »

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I do not believe this is the case with modern 6-speed autos.  Here is a snip from the specs page for the BMW 328 - one of the few vehicles I know of that can still be ordered with a manual transmission.  The auto version has [slightly] better mileage both city and highway. 

I suspect even 10 years ago with 5-speed autos the difference between auto and manual may have been either even or slightly favoring an auto, since the average manual driver either likes the fun of the shifting and isn't exactly eco-minded in their driving style, and/or are simply not as good at shifting as a highly optimized auto.

Out of curiosity I compared the 2006 Ford Focus(my car) auto vs. manual with the 2015 Focus auto vs. manual.





There's 1 mpg difference between the auto and manual in both cases but in the '06 the manual is better and in '15 the auto is better.

FWIW I get around 28-29mpg with my normal mix of city/highway and got 32mpg on a trip to Oklahoma last month running 75-80mph most of the way there(~200 mile trip). On the way back though it dropped to 28mpg because I was pushing a pretty bad head wind all the way back.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2014, 01:25:40 pm »

Which, if you consider significant digits and rounding, means the actual difference could be between .1 and 1.9 MPG.  It appears that individual driving habits will have more impact than your choice of auto or manual.
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Steve Swaffer

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2014, 01:49:50 pm »

FWIW there was recently a news article about inaccuracy in published auto mileage claims. I believe these are sometimes estimated pre-production, or may not reflect actual production. IIRC Ford was not a bad offender, Lexus may have been a few MPG too optimistic.

I suspect there is a lot of gamesmanship or fudge in how those are calculated.

JR
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2014, 02:45:09 pm »

FWIW there was recently a news article about inaccuracy in published auto mileage claims. I believe these are sometimes estimated pre-production, or may not reflect actual production. IIRC Ford was not a bad offender, Lexus may have been a few MPG too optimistic.

I suspect there is a lot of gamesmanship or fudge in how those are calculated.

If every manufacturer lied in the same manner (used the same flawed algorithm), the comparisons would still be valid.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2014, 03:30:12 pm »

If every manufacturer lied in the same manner (used the same flawed algorithm), the comparisons would still be valid.

The article showed a list of how the car companies compared to each other and if they were all the same it wouldn't be worth writing about. That said I suspect there is variation between each companies different models, article probably averaged multiple models within each company.

In general the majors were within about 1 MPG... I wouldn't use these published numbers for very close comparisons, but probably more useful the more different the vehicles. 

JR

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Steve Hurt

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2014, 10:01:45 pm »

I really enjoy driving my manual transmission Focus; it's much more fun than an automatic car. I bet an A4 with a manual can be a blast to drive.

Sent from my Moto X (XT1053) using Tapatalk

Agreed.  The wife has a Mini Cooper with a manual and it's a freaking blast to drive.
Her sisters Mini Cooper w/automatic is meh.
I had a BMW325i w/ a manual.  Loved it.  I tried automatic versions and was bored.
I would never buy a "fun" car with an automatic. 

Automatics are for getting comfortably from point A to point B
Manuals are for having fun getting from point A to point B
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Mac Kerr

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2014, 10:22:42 pm »

Agreed.  The wife has a Mini Cooper with a manual and it's a freaking blast to drive.
Her sisters Mini Cooper w/automatic is meh.
I had a BMW325i w/ a manual.  Loved it.  I tried automatic versions and was bored.
I would never buy a "fun" car with an automatic. 

Automatics are for getting comfortably from point A to point B
Manuals are for having fun getting from point A to point B

We'll see. I'm passing on my 6 speed manual A4 for a 6 speed DSG A3 with paddle shifters. All the clutch work while stuck in stop and go traffic on the westside of NYC isn't what I call fun. My daughter is doing well learning how to drive a stick while I for delivery of the A3. It's still in Germany.

Mac
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Bob Leonard

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2014, 11:17:30 pm »

I admire your taste Mac, that's a mighty fine vehicular device you have on order there, and please pictures when the big day arrives. Both my daughters are stick qualified, that was my requirement when they wanted to learn how to drive.

I'm sure you're familiar with a column shifter, so I'm sure you'll know what I'm talking about here. I owned a 1972 Chevy stepside. Straight 6 and the column shifter. I eventually replaced the column shift lever with a through the floor Hurst shifter because any quick shifts to 3rd gear would end up with the shifter handle pointing straight down to the floor, and once in a while that meant opening the hood to re-engage the shift mechanism.
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Steve Hurt

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Re: THIS is why.....
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2014, 11:40:38 pm »

We'll see. I'm passing on my 6 speed manual A4 for a 6 speed DSG A3 with paddle shifters. All the clutch work while stuck in stop and go traffic on the westside of NYC isn't what I call fun. My daughter is doing well learning how to drive a stick while I for delivery of the A3. It's still in Germany.

Mac

I take the Mini Cooper out when I want to have fun.
I wouldn't call driving in NYC fun, so I'd go automatic there.  My van has an auto.

I wouldn't pick a clutch car for driving in stop and go traffic.  Where I live, it's a lot more go, and a lot less stop!
 
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