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Author Topic: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band  (Read 2561 times)

Scott Holtzman

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2014, 12:39:48 am »

Yea Tim,  I agree.  The thumps (tops and subs) are not very good sounding speakers.

I have also found that micing up the toms makes a world of difference.  The problem many entry level bar bands have is that they don't have enough channels, don't have gates (or know how to use them), and don't have enough or the right kind of microphones to mic the toms well.

It is has also been hard for me to get a drummer that can control their volume in smaller venues.  A drummer can overwhelm even a venue of ~250 with too much cymbal and rim-shot snare hits.  I had a drummer I used to call wood chuck because at the end of every practice and gig, there was a pile of wood chips all around his kit from all the rim shots (he had big ole gorilla arms too).

To the OP.  Coming from thumps, any of the proposed speakers will be a night and day improvement.

Laughing, I told a drummer once that he had had all the finesse of an ape with turret's syndrome.  None of his bandmates liked him so I didn't even get fired.  An even more humorous situation was a guy walks up to me and identifies himself as the lead singers Dad.  Asks me if he could purchase anything to make his Son sound better, I suggested singing lessons.  He walked off in complete disgust.

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Scott AKA Skyking
Passion Fuel Productions, Cleveland OH

Steve M Smith

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2014, 02:50:39 am »

The problem many entry level bar bands have is that they don't have enough channels

In that situation, I would consider a parallel connection of two or even three identical tom mics.  It would just need an adaptor with a couple of resistors per mic input.

Certainly not ideal having a single channel controlling EQ and gain for three mics but probably better than not having them.


Steve.
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2014, 06:21:37 am »

I find a telltale giveaway for amateur bands is not micing the toms. You want to create 'heft' and having a beefy kick and distant toms goes in the wrong direction. The snare usually cuts better and if the drummer hits hard and/or plays rim shots on every hit, the toms have no way of keeping up dynamically.

That's funny because I find a tell tale sign of an amateur engineer is micing all the drums when just kick, snare and overhead, or sometimes even just kick and overhead is correct for the venue.

Quote
Lack of space to haul gear.  Rent a 4x8 Uhaul.  Costs $15 and can be towed by almost anything.  Less limitation on gear choices.

I just bought a brand new 5 x 8 trailer for $2000. Less than a lot of guitar amps. A lot of it it is priorities among musicians. My Fender Twin is in the storage, because I can take out a $270 Roland Cube that weighs 20 lbs to my band's gigs because I've got the PA to run it through. 

Some of the guys who hire me to do sound have $10,000 worth of guitars on stage and they tell me the wish they could afford a nice PA. Why does a guy in a bar level band need to switch between 6 guitars through out the night? I carry one guitar to play, one small amp, and bring along a guitar that never comes out of the case just in case I would break a string early in the set. It has yet to make an appearance on stage.

Band's getting $400-500 to play, they're giving me $300 of it and the two guitar players each have Marshall stacks in a room with 150 people. Poor choices in priorities.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 06:34:56 am by Scott Olewiler »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2014, 07:16:04 am »

That's funny because I find a tell tale sign of an amateur engineer is micing all the drums when just kick, snare and overhead, or sometimes even just kick and overhead is correct for the venue.

I just bought a brand new 5 x 8 trailer for $2000. Less than a lot of guitar amps. A lot of it it is priorities among musicians. My Fender Twin is in the storage, because I can take out a $270 Roland Cube that weighs 20 lbs to my band's gigs because I've got the PA to run it through. 

Some of the guys who hire me to do sound have $10,000 worth of guitars on stage and they tell me the wish they could afford a nice PA. Why does a guy in a bar level band need to switch between 6 guitars through out the night? I carry one guitar to play, one small amp, and bring along a guitar that never comes out of the case just in case I would break a string early in the set. It has yet to make an appearance on stage.

Band's getting $400-500 to play, they're giving me $300 of it and the two guitar players each have Marshall stacks in a room with 150 people. Poor choices in priorities.

Starting a small business with insufficient capital is the number one reason for failure.  Second is a business plan.  Using a U-Haul is not a viable plan and doesn't speak of any professionalism to your clients.  It's fine if it's a hobby shop but not for a serious business trying to compete.

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Scott AKA Skyking
Passion Fuel Productions, Cleveland OH

Alex Rigodanzo

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2014, 09:51:54 am »

Also not ideal, but you can get a small, quality mixer with 4-8 mic channels under $100 and mix the drums on stage and need only one channel at FOH.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2014, 06:45:05 pm »

I most always channels to burn but often not the time to put 8 mics on the kit. Sometimes the drummer is so late setting up, kick, ride & hat are it. I get plenty of snare and everything else for the most part.

If a band only plays a couple of times a month, the u-haul might make sense if one is available nearby. Otherwise look on Craig's list and buy a reasonable storage unit on wheels :-)


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Brian Jojade

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2014, 09:26:06 am »

Starting a small business with insufficient capital is the number one reason for failure.  Second is a business plan.  Using a U-Haul is not a viable plan and doesn't speak of any professionalism to your clients.  It's fine if it's a hobby shop but not for a serious business trying to compete.

I'm not sure that I agree on that.  What looks less professional, pulling a bunch of gear crammed in the back of an SUV, or unloading a U-haul?

Yes, over the long term, buying your own may be a better investment, but if you have easy access to Uhaul trailers, you can rent the size you need for the show you're doing, and then not have to worry about storage or maintenance of the trailer.  You could do 100+ shows with a rented Uhaul for the same price as buying your own.  If I had to pick a piece of gear to rent versus purchase, the transportation is first on the list.

FYI, for my larger shows, I ALWAYS rent a truck for the show.  I do maybe a dozen shows a year that require a large truck.  Sure, I could buy some beater like the other guys do, but would that look more professional that showing up in a shiny new Ryder that I don't have to store or maintain?
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Brian Jojade

Steve M Smith

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #27 on: July 15, 2014, 09:49:34 am »

A company I work for occasionally has its own trailer but doesn't own a truck to pull it.  They just hire someone to pick it up and deliver it then return it to its parking place after the event.




Steve.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #28 on: July 15, 2014, 06:26:03 pm »

Another good compromise for the lack of channels issue is to mic the kick and hat, and put a decent condenser as an overhead.  eq out the highs around 2K and above (in smaller rooms the snare and cymbals are going to be plenty loud anyway IME) and you can get a decent mix on the drums.

It is my preference to always mic the toms even in a small venue (100-300).  You just don't get much low end from them if you don't and I don't care for the sound of the drums without punchy toms.

I have a similar argument for the kick.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2014, 01:58:17 am »

I was thinking about this further today.  I think seven drum mics could be used on four channels without too much compromise.  Parallel three tom mics as I suggested earlier and also parallel two overheads.  With the right resistors in the adaptor and matching mikes, I think even two phantom powered condensers will work in parallel.


Steve.
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