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Author Topic: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band  (Read 17840 times)

Rick Powell

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2014, 07:42:50 PM »

We mic the kick drum and the snare, then we have a couple of condensers up top to capture hi hat, toms, and cymbols.  I don't think we plan on adding any more drum mics for our typical gigs.

We've been running both guitars and bass into the PA.  This is not out of necessity as both guitar amps are plenty loud on their own, but rather because we would prefer to keep our on-stage volume lower and use the mains for the audience levels.  Our bass player just bought a new 500 watt 2x10 amp, so we may not need bass in the mains any more.

That's an awful lot to be running thru a crappy set of mains.  With your current micing setup, I'd suggest at least a pair of good quality 12" tops and at least one good quality 18" sub.  Your kick drum is probably eating up a lot of available headroom as it is, and a sub would take most of the brunt out and also leave some space for the bass if you needed or wanted it.  The JBL PRX 700 series powered stuff would serve you well and hold its value, as other brands within their price range would, to each their own.
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Hampton Maher

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2014, 04:28:09 PM »

I have a pair of QSC K10's over a single KW181 and it is plenty for the type of gigs you describe.  I don't know if there is any real benefit of the K12's over the K10's if you are running a sub.  Just extra weight and size to carry around.  I like the KW181 over the JBL PRX sub because it is physically smaller.  I also don't like how the PRX stuff doesn't have a hi-pass filter in the tops.  Can't run aux fed subs without some sort of external crossover.  The Yamaha DXR tops are as good or better than the K series and cheaper when buying new.  If I didn't get a good deal on a used pair of K10's I would have gone with DXR10's.  The Yamaha sub (DSR118) isn't bad but not quite in the same league as the KW181.
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Scott Bolt

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #12 on: July 12, 2014, 06:20:17 PM »

I would add my voice to others that have stated their disdain for the thumps.  Not a fan.

I would also agree, that while I don't care for the thumps, adding a sub or two should be your first order of business as it will relieve the tops of the kick drum and bass frequencies that it really can't handle anyway.

I sadly haven't heard the PRX715XLF, but have heard good things about it from some who have used it.  Personally, I don't see the wisdom in going with the 715 over the 718 unless you are very concerned with space.

The 718XLF will put out noticeably more output and go noticeably lower than the 715 (134 VS 131 db).

The best system would be a pair of 712's over a pair of 718's; however, it is larger and a little more expensive than .....

.... a pair of 710's over a pair of 715's.  This will likely get the job done (certainly light years better than the thumps), but will run out of gas quite a bit earlier than the first system.

If you are really pressed for space, and are trying to conserve your funds, a pair of 710's and a single 718XLF.

@Hampton,

I have a neighbor with a KW system (153's over 181's).  While I agree with your assessment that the 181 is noticeably smaller (not lighter) than the 718XLF, I thought the XLF was cleaner, tighter and punchier.

Originally, the PRX618S-XLF used the same driver as the VRX918p (powered touring sub).  I think that the XLF's are one of the best "bang for the buck" quality subs out there.  I really like the sound.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2014, 08:11:16 PM »

I would add my voice to others that have stated their disdain for the thumps.  Not a fan.

I would also agree, that while I don't care for the thumps, adding a sub or two should be your first order of business as it will relieve the tops of the kick drum and bass frequencies that it really can't handle anyway.

I sadly haven't heard the PRX715XLF, but have heard good things about it from some who have used it.  Personally, I don't see the wisdom in going with the 715 over the 718 unless you are very concerned with space.

The 718XLF will put out noticeably more output and go noticeably lower than the 715 (134 VS 131 db).

The best system would be a pair of 712's over a pair of 718's; however, it is larger and a little more expensive than .....

.... a pair of 710's over a pair of 715's.  This will likely get the job done (certainly light years better than the thumps), but will run out of gas quite a bit earlier than the first system.

If you are really pressed for space, and are trying to conserve your funds, a pair of 710's and a single 718XLF.

@Hampton,

I have a neighbor with a KW system (153's over 181's).  While I agree with your assessment that the 181 is noticeably smaller (not lighter) than the 718XLF, I thought the XLF was cleaner, tighter and punchier.

Originally, the PRX618S-XLF used the same driver as the VRX918p (powered touring sub).  I think that the XLF's are one of the best "bang for the buck" quality subs out there.  I really like the sound.

The Thud sub is no better a sub than the tops are PA boxes.  Run.
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John Chiara

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2014, 11:53:07 AM »

We mic the kick drum and the snare, then we have a couple of condensers up top to capture hi hat, toms, and cymbols.  I don't think we plan on adding any more drum mics for our typical gig.

I find a telltale giveaway for amateur bands is not micing the toms. You want to create 'heft' and having a beefy kick and distant toms goes in the wrong direction. The snare usually cuts better and if the drummer hits hard and/or plays rim shots on every hit, the toms have no way of keeping up dynamically.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2014, 02:12:24 PM »

I find a telltale giveaway for amateur bands is not micing the toms. You want to create 'heft' and having a beefy kick and distant toms goes in the wrong direction. The snare usually cuts better and if the drummer hits hard and/or plays rim shots on every hit, the toms have no way of keeping up dynamically.

Yepper.  I remember back in the old days, using the high hat mic for snare pick up.  We didn't need no stinkin' snare drum mic.  Oh, and it sounded like a snare drum... we didn't need no stinkin' bottom mic - we gave the drummer a tuning key.

Nurse will be along with my meds soon...
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Steve M Smith

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2014, 02:58:56 PM »

I remember back in the old days, using the high hat mic for snare pick up.

We used to do the same - except that we considered it to be the snare drum mic which also picked up the hi hat.


Steve.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2014, 03:05:59 PM »

We used to do the same - except that we considered it to be the snare drum mic which also picked up the hi hat.


Steve.

Yeah, and you guys drive on the wrong side of the road, too, so I'm driving down the middle.  Have the valet bring my Lambo around... ;)

My brief time in a commercial recording studio led my calling it the HH mic... our staff engineer had this thing about 'those damn loud snare drums'.  He'd send me into the drum booth to move the mic around.
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Scott Bolt

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2014, 09:15:05 PM »

Yea Tim,  I agree.  The thumps (tops and subs) are not very good sounding speakers.

I have also found that micing up the toms makes a world of difference.  The problem many entry level bar bands have is that they don't have enough channels, don't have gates (or know how to use them), and don't have enough or the right kind of microphones to mic the toms well.

It is has also been hard for me to get a drummer that can control their volume in smaller venues.  A drummer can overwhelm even a venue of ~250 with too much cymbal and rim-shot snare hits.  I had a drummer I used to call wood chuck because at the end of every practice and gig, there was a pile of wood chips all around his kit from all the rim shots (he had big ole gorilla arms too).

To the OP.  Coming from thumps, any of the proposed speakers will be a night and day improvement.
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Alex Rigodanzo

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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2014, 11:10:43 PM »

Two quick points neither about gear.  I've recently had the pleasure of learning that a drummer with a quality kit who can tune it, doesn't require gates.  I've always gated drums before.  He asked me to try without and they sound great.

Lack of space to haul gear.  Rent a 4x8 Uhaul.  Costs $15 and can be towed by almost anything.  Less limitation on gear choices.
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Re: Help with PA Strategy for Rock Band
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2014, 11:10:43 PM »


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