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Author Topic: Simple old school PAR light rig  (Read 11863 times)

Mike Sullivan

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Simple old school PAR light rig
« on: July 02, 2014, 01:57:19 AM »

So LED's are nice and all, but they don't have the same effect as a good PAR can, nor do LED's look as good as one to the front.  So, what I'd like to do, is build a simple rig of PAR's (8-12 trees of 4 with a dimmer pack on each) with a 200A single phase distro to go with it.  This way, I can either take just 2 trees on a small show on T-bars, or set them up with 4 on the front and either LED's or the other trees on the back, or any combination.  Where would be the best place to start to purchase cheap (but decent) cans and figuring out the best way to wire everything up?  Also, what would be the best size bulbs to use?  Biggest stage these would see will probably be a 32 x 28 if that.

(Also to note, at some times they will be used with LED's as well for color wash.  And yes I do realize the irony that one of my older topics on lighting is pretty much directly below (or maybe even above) this one)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 02:04:47 AM by Mike Sullivan »
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Mark Cadwallader

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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 10:54:32 AM »

Mike, "full size" PAR lights are PAR 64s. (Sizes are 1/8" increments; a 64 equals an 8" lamp, and uses a 10" gel frame.)  1000 watt lamps (not "bulbs") are standard for a professional house and are available in various beam patterns -- WFL (wide flood), MFL (medium flood), and spot patterns.  500 watt lamps are also available.

The wattage of lamps you use is probably going to be driven by the dimmers you use. The standard dimmer size (for SRC type dimmers) is 2.4 kw (20 amperes at 120 v).  That's a maximum of two 1000 lamps per dimmer channel. Portable (light stand mounted) dimmers may limit you to 600 watts per channel, thus forcing you to use 500 w lamps.

Your dimmer pack selection will drive your choice of electical connectors. Edison (NEMA 5-15) is cheapest, but non-locking. 20 A twist-lock (NEMA L5-20) and 20 A stage pin (2P & G) are the other choices. Stage pin (a/k/a Bates connectors) are the standard for theater use.  Multi-core connectors ("Socapex") are quick connects for 6 circuits per cable, with break-outs for individual lighting fixtures.

Note that unless you buy color scrollers, you will need one fixture for each basic color of light you want (red, blue, and amber are the basic wash colors). That's three of your four fixtures per tree. That eats up dimmer channels and fixtures in a hurry.

FWIW, I am just using LED fixtures in my own rig. I use conventional fixtures at the theater I tech at. Mark C.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 08:43:34 PM by Mark Cadwallader »
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2014, 12:39:43 PM »

For us using 1000watt par cans are just not ideal. 32 of them would need a 300AMP Distro. with festivals we usually use a 100amp distro for everything. With LED par 64 cans which get almost as bright (actual they are brighter than a par64 if you compared the blue of the LED par to the blue gel on the led par etc)32 of these will happily run on a single 20amp circuit.  having a 300amp distro at most festivals is unrealistic.
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Rob Spence

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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2014, 06:09:19 PM »

Even a 200a single phase distro seems unlikely. Once you get to that power level it seems that 3 phase is more common.

To the OP. Cheep cans might be had but you need to think about the cost of cable and connectors. Perhaps you have.


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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2014, 07:58:35 PM »


To the OP. Cheep cans might be had but you need to think about the cost of cable and connectors. Perhaps you have.


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This. Par 64 cans from MBT and many others can be had with 1000watt lamps new for $20-$30. The cost is in the dimmer rack, the power from the dimmer rack and socapex connections etc. as well as the dedicated power distro. Par cans are cheap but to have a usable portable setup it's very expensive.
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Ron Hebbard

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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2014, 08:41:06 PM »

For us using 1000watt par cans are just not ideal. 32 of them would need a 300AMP Distro. with festivals we usually use a 100amp distro for everything. With LED par 64 cans which get almost as bright (actual they are brighter than a par64 if you compared the blue of the LED par to the blue gel on the led par etc)32 of these will happily run on a single 20amp circuit.  having a 300amp distro at most festivals is unrealistic.

Jason;

Please explain your electrical math.
Here's my math rounded up to 33 1Kw lamps for ease of illustration:
33 x 1,000 Watts = 33,000 Watts
Divided equally across 3 phases = 11,000 Watts per phase.
Operating at 120 Volts per phase
11,000 divided by 120 Volts = 91.666 Amps per phase.
Basically pretty much the sane limit on a 100 Amp distro.
Personally I prefer to limit loads to 80% but the 91.666 Amps above would only be for moments when all lamps are at 100%.
(Let's not consider any additional surges when bumping stone cold filaments to 100% in a zero count.)

One more time, now with a 120/240 Volt single phase distro:
(Dropping back to your 32 lamps this time, again for ease of illustration.)
32 x 1,000 Watts = 32,000 Watts
Divided equally across 2 legs = 16,000 Watts per leg.
Operating at 120 Volts per leg
16,000 divided by 120 Volts = 133.333 Amps.
Well past the limits of a single phase 100 Amp distro but hardly breaking a sweat on a 200 Amp distro.

Again, please explain your math to minor minions such as myself.

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2014, 09:40:40 PM »

Jason;

Please explain your electrical math.
Here's my math rounded up to 33 1Kw lamps for ease of illustration:
33 x 1,000 Watts = 33,000 Watts
Divided equally across 3 phases = 11,000 Watts per phase.
Operating at 120 Volts per phase
11,000 divided by 120 Volts = 91.666 Amps per phase.
Basically pretty much the sane limit on a 100 Amp distro.
Personally I prefer to limit loads to 80% but the 91.666 Amps above would only be for moments when all lamps are at 100%.
(Let's not consider any additional surges when bumping stone cold filaments to 100% in a zero count.)

One more time, now with a 120/240 Volt single phase distro:
(Dropping back to your 32 lamps this time, again for ease of illustration.)
32 x 1,000 Watts = 32,000 Watts
Divided equally across 2 legs = 16,000 Watts per leg.
Operating at 120 Volts per leg
16,000 divided by 120 Volts = 133.333 Amps.
Well past the limits of a single phase 100 Amp distro but hardly breaking a sweat on a 200 Amp distro.

Again, please explain your math to minor minions such as myself.

Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

I'm strickly talking single phase here, in the festival world 3 phase isn't generally something we do.

While of course you can run the par cans off a 200AMP distro try adding any addtional rented and or upgraded fixtures (rented discharge lamp moving heads) or rented followspots and it will easily put you above a limits of a 200AMP distro. you'll want to have plenty of head room rented and or future gear, and with lighting that power gets used up - much much faster than audio. In audio a 14-50 50AMP single phase (50 on each leg) would be able to power a pretty decent sized concerts, not so much with lighting.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #7 on: July 02, 2014, 09:48:35 PM »

I'm strickly talking single phase here, in the festival world 3 phase isn't generally something we do.

I guess that depends on the festival. Every outdoor stage I have worked on had a 3Ø generator, with plenty of power, or installed power in the 200A for sound range. Every theater or hotel ballroom I have worked in has had 3Ø power, and plenty of it. Generally we spec 100A 3Ø for sound and video to share, maybe 200A if it includes big projectors, at least double that for a rock show. Lighting is usually on a separate 200A-800A 3Ø supply.

Mac
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2014, 09:57:56 PM »

Yes 3 phase is the rule rather than the exception....  We have some single phase distro gear but it's 50a or smaller.  Anything larger, 3 phase please and thankyou....


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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2014, 11:41:15 PM »

I guess that depends on the festival. Every outdoor stage I have worked on had a 3Ø generator, with plenty of power, or installed power in the 200A for sound range. Every theater or hotel ballroom I have worked in has had 3Ø power, and plenty of it. Generally we spec 100A 3Ø for sound and video to share, maybe 200A if it includes big projectors, at least double that for a rock show. Lighting is usually on a separate 200A-800A 3Ø supply.

Mac

I wish but, 75% of our outdoor stuff is on permant outdoor stages (we have a lot of them around here) and on site power is provided, so gennie rental is an expense promoters don't want. But it's not that bad. for most of those we use our 50a 14-50 distros. Most of those outdoor festival stages are also on very large camping grounds for festival attending so they just put power panels behind the stage like they do for RVs. They give us 6+ Nema 14-50 50a receptacles with 100amp useable at 120v which is a lot of power really.

The festivals vary but the really big one is a country/blue grass festival that is a week long and people drive across the country to come to and camp out (a lot of hippies too).

Non Festival and one day events we tend to rent three phase gennies for.
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Re: Simple old school PAR light rig
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2014, 11:41:15 PM »


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