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Author Topic: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...  (Read 1405 times)

Pete Erskine

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Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2014, 04:16:43 pm »

Admittedly, I haven't used WWB. I was under the impression that it only had access to Shure equipment.

WWB can only remote control Shure equipment but it can coordinate any other product and has many already in it's database.
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Nitin Sidhu

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Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2014, 03:56:48 am »

Thank you!

That was my impression too. I am demoing RF Guru, and simultaneously using WWB, and for frequency coordination see that that WWB pretty much does it all. In addition to the benefit of networking to shure equipment when available. Like RF Guru, I will still have to manually make profiles for most non Shure wl gear.

And yes, there is nothing that does TV channels in India. In fact, I have been trying to find a source which at least lists frequencies of local broadcast, but cant find any. (Most TV in india is DTH or cable, and local broadcast will be restricted to the state owned tv channels, still) What little info I find suggests local TV broadcast is in the VHF band.

So I am interested in the RF scanner though, I have the RF Explorer, and can use it with RF Scanner to generate csv reports, which I can 'hopefully' import into WWB ? Would this be possible. The demo of RF scanner does not seem to generate any reports.

Regards,
Sidhu
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 10:11:53 am »

Thank you!

That was my impression too. I am demoing RF Guru, and simultaneously using WWB, and for frequency coordination see that that WWB pretty much does it all. In addition to the benefit of networking to shure equipment when available. Like RF Guru, I will still have to manually make profiles for most non Shure wl gear.

And yes, there is nothing that does TV channels in India. In fact, I have been trying to find a source which at least lists frequencies of local broadcast, but cant find any. (Most TV in india is DTH or cable, and local broadcast will be restricted to the state owned tv channels, still) What little info I find suggests local TV broadcast is in the VHF band.

So I am interested in the RF scanner though, I have the RF Explorer, and can use it with RF Scanner to generate csv reports, which I can 'hopefully' import into WWB ? Would this be possible. The demo of RF scanner does not seem to generate any reports.

Regards,
Sidhu

I have been told (by Shure) that WWB6 does have the ability to import CSV files but the only time I tried it was at home and my WinRadio scanner didnít find any frequencies with the parameters I gave it. so I had no data in the file to import.

I have had Shure UHF-R wireless to use as the scanner (in WWB) so I havenít spent any more time trying to get CSV file importation to work. I will have to try that myself again soon.
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Jason Glass

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Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2014, 11:47:58 am »

So I am interested in the RF scanner though, I have the RF Explorer, and can use it with RF Scanner to generate csv reports, which I can 'hopefully' import into WWB ? Would this be possible. The demo of RF scanner does not seem to generate any reports.

Regards,
Sidhu

For WWB6 CSV import, you just need to make sure that the CSV file contents have no header row, and that the 1st column contains frequencies in MHz to three decimal places, and the second column contains amplitudes in dBm.  It works very well.

Mac Kerr

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Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2014, 11:52:57 am »

For WWB6 CSV import, you just need to make sure that the CSV file contents have no header row, and that the 1st column contains frequencies in MHz to three decimal places, and the second column contains amplitudes in dBm.  It works very well.

Does the data from the CSV file impact the frequencies WWB6 will offer, or is it only a display that you have to keep in mind as you do a coord?

Mac
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Jason Glass

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Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2014, 12:02:50 pm »

Does the data from the CSV file impact the frequencies WWB6 will offer, or is it only a display that you have to keep in mind as you do a coord?

Mac

You can drag a threshold up or down on the graph and it will exclude from coordination any part of spectrum where the imported trace is above the threshold.

It really is the most bad-to-the-bone freeware that I've ever seen.  I've successfully used CSV data from Signal Hound, RF Explorer, and WinRadio to coord with it.  It's quirky with non-Shure gear, but works great when you build your own equipment model specs based on IAS parameters and experience.  Who can blame Shure for that?  When used with an Axient Spectrum Manager and Axient gear, it's nothing short of awesome.

I still prefer IAS for large coords, though.  The workflow is smoother, especially when you must constantly recoordinate small parts of the whole show as your requirements change.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 12:07:30 pm by Jason Glass »
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Steve.Oldridge

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Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2014, 02:28:05 pm »

Wireless coordination is definitely something people should be doing... and with Shure's Wireless Workbench 6 there's a pretty good free program for doing it. I still prefer IAS for big projects, but WWB6 is pretty capable (multiple manufacturers supported) and I think there's no excuse not to have a copy.

Given that all the threads I have read here on the topic are telling me that the 10 devices my band is using is an accident waiting to happen,   I would love to see/have a "RF Coordination for Dummies" step-by-step guide put together for us weekend warrior types as Peter Erskine's guide is great.. but I don't have $2k for IAS + RF scanner and there must be another way to get the same outcomes!
 
I'd hazard that once one has done this (as with many things) it's not overly complex, but getting the pieces-parts going has me stumped.

Yes, I installed WWB6 on my home PC, updated the inventory for TV stations in my zip (50 mile radius), added 4 Shure IEM devices the band uses. I need to add other devices not listed in the default inventory and cannot find (via google) other vendors specs to import.  The coordination screen showed the TV frequencies plots... but what equipment do I need to get scans going and how do I use the resulting data?

so... Starting from scratch...
  • what hardware.. assume laptop WITH WIRELESS networking capability ??
  • what software to use (answered in this thread, and others)
  • how do I (or can I) scan the RF frequencies (without an EXPENSIVE scanner listed in Mr. Erksine's doc) for the devices I'm using at the gig ?
  • I can scan the 2.4/5Ghz devices using apps on an Android/iDevice, but how to I sync that data with the 500-700 Mhz devices discovered in the RF scan ?

Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm probably not the only complete noob at this!
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Nitin Sidhu

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Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2014, 02:49:39 pm »

. I've successfully used CSV data from Signal Hound, RF Explorer, and WinRadio to coord with it.  It's quirky with non-Shure gear, but works great when you build your own equipment model specs based on IAS parameters and experience.  Who can blame Shure for that?  When used with an Axient Spectrum Manager and Axient gear, it's nothing short of awesome.

This all is great news!

Jason, what did you use to import csv data from RF xplorer, and where can we get model specs for IAS ? Thank you very much.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 02:57:51 pm by Nitin Sidhu »
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Nitin Sidhu

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Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2014, 02:56:28 pm »


    • what hardware.. assume laptop WITH WIRELESS networking capability ??
    • what software to use (answered in this thread, and others)
    • how do I (or can I) scan the RF frequencies (without an EXPENSIVE scanner listed in Mr. Erksine's doc) for the devices I'm using at the gig ?
    • I can scan the 2.4/5Ghz devices using apps on an Android/iDevice, but how to I sync that data with the 500-700 Mhz devices discovered in the RF scan ?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm probably not the only complete noob at this!

    Steve, I got interested in WL coordination with 2 WL units that were a disaster. If you were to read the thread again, you would know :

    1. Shure's WWB or RF guru are great cheap WL coordination softwares.
    2. You still need hardware (never free) to find RF. The RF Explorer is cheap.

    Regards,
    Sidhu[/list]
    « Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 11:17:39 pm by Nitin Sidhu »
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    Mac Kerr

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    Re: Wireless Coordination, not just useful...
    « Reply #19 on: July 03, 2014, 04:01:53 pm »

    Given that all the threads I have read here on the topic are telling me that the 10 devices my band is using is an accident waiting to happen,   I would love to see/have a "RF Coordination for Dummies" step-by-step guide put together for us weekend warrior types as Peter Erskine's guide is great.. but I don't have $2k for IAS + RF scanner and there must be another way to get the same outcomes!
     
    I'd hazard that once one has done this (as with many things) it's not overly complex, but getting the pieces-parts going has me stumped.

    Yes, I installed WWB6 on my home PC, updated the inventory for TV stations in my zip (50 mile radius), added 4 Shure IEM devices the band uses. I need to add other devices not listed in the default inventory and cannot find (via google) other vendors specs to import.  The coordination screen showed the TV frequencies plots... but what equipment do I need to get scans going and how do I use the resulting data?

    so... Starting from scratch...
    • what hardware.. assume laptop WITH WIRELESS networking capability ??
    • what software to use (answered in this thread, and others)
    • how do I (or can I) scan the RF frequencies (without an EXPENSIVE scanner listed in Mr. Erksine's doc) for the devices I'm using at the gig ?
    • I can scan the 2.4/5Ghz devices using apps on an Android/iDevice, but how to I sync that data with the 500-700 Mhz devices discovered in the RF scan ?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm probably not the only complete noob at this!

    An RF spectrum analyzer is great if you have one, but you can do a good job without one. Using WWB6 and paying attention to your receivers once you have then tuned to coordinated frequencies may be all you need. The important part is eliminating TV channel interference, and intermodulation interference, both of which are done with WWB.

    Use WWB to eliminate possible DTV channels, and then add the devices you want to coordinate. Let it pick plenty of spare frequencies. Tune your devices to every other recommended frequency to start with, then turn on all of your mic receivers and IEM transmitters, and look for stray RF on the RF meters of the mics. It is best to keep your IEM frequencies as far from your mic frequencies as you can. If you have a mic showing RF, try one of your spare frequencies. Once you have done that, turn on all your mic transmitters. Now turn off the mic transmitters one at a time and see if you are still interference clear. If not, turn off others till you find the problem child. Try a spare freq on the problem child, and go back and start with turning off mic 1 again. Once you make a change you have to check everything from the beginning again. When all the mics are clear when turned off one at a time you have done as much as you can with just WWB.

    It is possible to use one of your mic receivers as a scanner with WWB, but it will only scan in its own band split.

    Mac
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