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Author Topic: Upcoming event  (Read 9827 times)

Bob Kidd

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Upcoming event
« on: June 29, 2014, 01:21:36 AM »

I'm sure someone here have had Saliva in their travels. They will be playing in the club I do in August. Like with all the events I contact TM to get specific needs. Explained that we use 2 srx 725s over 4 728s in a 75 feet wide and 200 feet long room. This setup has workout very well with a number of acts that have came through. Fuel being the most recent. TM said I really need a total of 6 srx 725s to offer the headroom I need. Now I can see maybe 4 total but in this room I feel 6 is overkill and with width would be to much. What I offered was 4 725s and 6 728s which I feel would rock this size room with more than enough headroom. But I differ to the vast experience on this forum, is 6 725s to much for this size room? Thanks
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 02:36:36 AM by Bob Kidd »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2014, 08:59:38 AM »

When you start adding cabinets for "headroom" the sound quality starts to suffer.

And let's examine his "headroom" idea a bit more.

IF the additional cabinets were to sum together perfectly (which they won't due to the spaced drivers), the MAXIMUM additional output you could get would be 3 dB.

If 3dB is going to make or break the performance-then you need a bigger system.

Of course some people actually like the sound of cabinets that are interfering with each other.  It sounds "right" to them and what a PA is "supposed" to sound like.

Assuming the 2 cabinets are side by side an splayed and covering the room fine-then where would you place the 3 per side so that it can add to the others and not interfere???????????

Of course that is not what the type of question you ask to a TM who makes up things as he goes and believe that he is right
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Ivan Beaver
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2014, 09:46:04 AM »

According to the Danley DDT Calculator for iPhone, coherent addition of two like acoustical signals is 6 dB.  Why did you use 3dB for your "sum together perfectly" number?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2014, 10:32:24 AM »

According to the Danley DDT Calculator for iPhone, coherent addition of two like acoustical signals is 6 dB.  Why did you use 3dB for your "sum together perfectly" number?
Because going from 2 cabinet to 3 cabinet is NOT "like" sources.  Going from 2 cabinet to 4 cabinets is doubling the "like" sources.

A 50% addition in cabinets will result in a maximum of 3dB gain.

But then that is assuming the sources are within 1/4 wavelength of each other-and as with most cabinets-that wavelength addition only occurs at the lower freq-NOT the mids or highs-where there can actually be LOSS-due to cancellation at some freq.

Consider that 550Hz is 2' long-so 1/4 wavelength is 6".  Pretty hard to get drivers that close-and much harder as the freq goes up
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2014, 11:44:07 AM »

I'm sure someone here have had Saliva in their travels. They will be playing in the club I do in August. Like with all the events I contact TM to get specific needs. Explained that we use 2 srx 725s over 4 728s in a 75 feet wide and 200 feet long room. This setup has workout very well with a number of acts that have came through. Fuel being the most recent. TM said I really need a total of 6 srx 725s to offer the headroom I need. Now I can see maybe 4 total but in this room I feel 6 is overkill and with width would be to much. What I offered was 4 725s and 6 728s which I feel would rock this size room with more than enough headroom. But I differ to the vast experience on this forum, is 6 725s to much for this size room? Thanks

I can't offer specific advice about how much PA in this room is enough, but we've done a bunch of work with Saliva over the years.  Compared to some of the other hard rock acts whose names begin with "S", Saliva are pussycats.  There's a good chance the PA will still work when Saliva is done; it's the support acts that you'll have to ride herd over.

The basic reality is that SRX725 aren't the right box for the room - there is no "good" way to deploy them that will make sense.  The TM is trying to get enough piston area to move "rock show quantities" of air regardless of what it sounds like.

And FWIW, if I were the BE or PM/TM for a band like we're discussing, I'd not accept this rig/room combination, either.
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Bob Kidd

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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2014, 02:31:48 PM »



The basic reality is that SRX725 aren't the right box for the room - there is no "good" way to deploy them that will make sense.  The TM is trying to get enough piston area to move "rock show quantities" of air regardless of what it sounds like.

And FWIW, if I were the BE or PM/TM for a band like we're discussing, I'd not accept this rig/room combination, either.

Thanks Tim,   If 725s are not for this type of room what would you say would be? The 725s have worked great but I'm always looking to improve system.
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2014, 06:49:10 PM »

Thanks Tim,   If 725s are not for this type of room what would you say would be? The 725s have worked great but I'm always looking to improve system.
Older boxes but EAW 650s/EAW 850 would be a lot of volume for the room
Also if your looking into line arrays (I don't know what the room is like) The martin w8lm has gained a lot of popularity recently, at least around here.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2014, 07:13:31 PM »

Thanks Tim,   If 725s are not for this type of room what would you say would be? The 725s have worked great but I'm always looking to improve system.

I'd want something 3 way, pref. horn-loaded mids, with a relatively tight pattern.

Enough of the 728s would be fine for subs.

Doing hardcore & metal requires the same kind of overkill that rap/hip hop/EDM requires in the subs.

In a way, the Saliva contact is trying to keep your rig intact.  He doesn't care about the sound quality nearly as much as he cares about the rig surviving to the end of the show.
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"If you're passing on your way, from Palm Springs to L.A., Give a wave to good ol' Dave, Say hello to progress and goodbye to the Moonlight Motor Inn." - Steve Spurgin, Moonlight Motor Inn

Bob Kidd

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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2014, 08:04:00 PM »

I'd want something 3 way, pref. horn-loaded mids, with a relatively tight pattern.

Enough of the 728s would be fine for subs.

Doing hardcore & metal requires the same kind of overkill that rap/hip hop/EDM requires in the subs.

In a way, the Saliva contact is trying to keep your rig intact.  He doesn't care about the sound quality nearly as much as he cares about the rig surviving to the end of the show.

Got ya, It does seem in talking to him to be exactly what your saying. Will look into upgrading system but for this event will go with the 4 725s can do 6 just worried about splay and 6 728s. Thanks again! 

Hey Jason, I am looking into arrays but would not be flying them in this venue. Would want to use them in multiple situations. Thanks
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 08:07:13 PM by Bob Kidd »
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2014, 08:14:34 PM »

Four has never been an issue to me Bob, but six (6) may be looking for trouble. I just don't see any way you could splay them properly. You'll have plenty of volume with the four, but you'll be pushing hard. Let us know how this works out please.
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Re: Upcoming event
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2014, 08:14:34 PM »


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