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Author Topic: Question on PA Set up  (Read 10359 times)

Greg_Cameron

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Re: Question on PA Set up
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2014, 01:22:02 PM »

I used with _great_ success a Waves MAXXBASS to keep from destroying the Contemporary Art Museum here in STL during a set by Nelly.

I got the "sensation" of deep bass but in fact nothing vibrated.  It's probably the best use of this device, other than to compensate somehow for inferior subs. 

If you can find one, try it.

Doug, how would you implement Maxxbass on a Venue? Just on the sub aux? Or would you run it on entire channels? Does it require upper band passes to work?
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Doug Fowler

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Re: Question on PA Set up
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2014, 02:56:56 PM »

Doug, how would you implement Maxxbass on a Venue? Just on the sub aux? Or would you run it on entire channels? Does it require upper band passes to work?

It needs to be routed to full range, since it works by tricking the ear with harmonics (principle of the missing fundamental, like pipe organs).  I have seen it used just on sub out, but it just doesn't work that way.  I prefer to use it on a non-sub on aux setup, since the balance of the harmonics would get whacked with changes in sub level.

Another way to use it is as a channel insert.

I had SRX-728 at the Nelly gig (at a wedding reception, actually) and it works great with that box.  The promoter asked me to turn down the bass during a quick sound check (DJ opener, then Nelly with a DJ) but literally nothing was vibrating. 
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John Cardo

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Re: Question on PA Set up
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2014, 03:06:27 PM »

John,

Although it is not uncommon at raves playing EDM including trance etc. to hit as high as 125 dB SPL in the sub bass range at 150 feet, looking at the B2 specs:

B2-SUB system data (standard/INFRA)
Frequency response (–5 dB) D12...37 Hz - 90 Hz / 32 Hz - 68 Hz
Frequency response (–5 dB) A1.......37 Hz - 125 Hz / 32 Hz - 68 Hz
Max. sound pressure (1 m, full space) D12 or A1.......139 dB / 136 dB

If we subtract 10dB (for marketing hype factor) then add back 6 dB (for ground stacking rather than full space) each cabinet can produce 135-132 dB, so a pair could do over 100 dB at 150 feet outdoors. Indoors, probably more.

8 should get you at least 112 dB at 150 feet.

Art

Excellent i was starting to worry especially considering the event is already over budget.

Doug, i actually have that waves plugin on my laptop but the console im going to be using is an analog so that's not an
option but thanks for your help.
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Question on PA Set up
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2014, 12:58:10 AM »

Excellent i was starting to worry especially considering the event is already over budget.

Doug, i actually have that waves plugin on my laptop but the console im going to be using is an analog so that's not an
option but thanks for your help.

If you have a decent stereo interface for your laptop you could actually route the console through the laptop. Latency isn't an issue when only playing back prerecorded tracks, so run the console through ProTools or Cubase or whatever you use and slap MaxxBass across he stereo bus.  Or put the laptop between the source and the console,... or even as a channel or bus insert.
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Jens Droessler

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Re: Question on PA Set up
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2014, 04:23:36 AM »

Remember that all the punch comes from the J tops. So don't underestimate the need for those. You have eight 12" speakers per side playing down to 60Hz. That's not THAT much for an audience of 1700 that usually demands a real pounding in the kick range. Do not try to use a higher crossover setting. The B2 won't do any good there, especially with EDM (which trance is).

B2-SUB system data (standard/INFRA)
Frequency response (–5 dB) D12...37 Hz - 90 Hz / 32 Hz - 68 Hz
Frequency response (–5 dB) A1.......37 Hz - 125 Hz / 32 Hz - 68 Hz
Max. sound pressure (1 m, full space) D12 or A1.......139 dB / 136 dB

If we subtract 10dB (for marketing hype factor) then add back 6 dB (for ground stacking rather than full space) each cabinet can produce 135-132 dB, so a pair could do over 100 dB at 150 feet outdoors. Indoors, probably more.
The B2 has been around for 20 years. It's driven with 1200W from a D12. I don't think these specs are to be trusted in any way. Even your "speced down" 135dB half space would mean around 105dB 1W/1m. Seems too much to me for a double 18 bandpass enclosure.
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John Cardo

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Re: Question on PA Set up
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2014, 02:47:12 PM »

Hello everyone, a bit of an update on this i've recently been able to find some J-Sub's but they are not the Infra ones. would those work better then the B2s?
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Mike Kirby

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Re: Question on PA Set up
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2014, 06:52:45 PM »

I am not sure if you will find any relevance in this but I did dozens of these things in the 90's in venues up to 5000 peeps, I always used folded subs and ran 4 stacks. The main FOH stacks usually 4 x folded W bins, either ACT's or the smaller Court subs per side coupled with 4 x horn loaded 2 x 12" per side and 4 x 2446 horns per side. The rear stack that faced from the corners into the centre of the dance floor usually a single stack 1 x W bin, 2 x 12' horn loaded mids and 1 x 2446 per side. I had a dolby processor that I made myself and ran the rear stacks as "Surround" sends. This set up was nothing short of awesome and insured that I always got these gigs.

As everyone else here has said you really do need tons of bottom end to make these shows work, it is way better to have to much than not enough. At this time I was also in house tech for a very up upmarket club in Brisbane that had a max capacity of around 500, I had 4 x double 15 subs across the front under the stage and 4 x  1 x 12' and 1 x 2" HF satellites each side flown in the ceiling out front and 2 of these cabs a side at the rear all focused to the dance floor and this system was flat out every night.

You should also run a good brick wall limiter over the front because I have found that DJ's just want it louder and they will blow the crap out of your gear if you are not keeping tabs on them at all times..........like I said not sure if you can get anything out of this but maybe you will :)       
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Question on PA Set up
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2014, 06:52:45 PM »


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