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[Steve Oldridge]

Steve, you're confusing the physical outputs with buses.  A "bus" is not inherently connected to a specific output ("default" is NOT inherent).  Your L/R physical outputs for the PA could just as easily be XLR 1 and 4, or XLR 3 and AUX4....  And they could just as easily be Matrix bus outs as L/R bus outs.

You route bus outputs to physical connectors as I described in my previous post.

Yamaha calls the physical outputs "OutPorts" and now I understand why they chose that nomenclature.  An "output" is a signal, "OutPort" is a physical connection.

Tim, I understand where you might think that, but I don't believe that's the case.. I believe I know the difference. I know I can route the "main out/master fader" bus to any allowed physical output on the X32.. be that 1 thru 16 (or cards, P16, etc). I also know that 7/8 are assigned by "default". I know I can route a channel to multiple busses and assign a bus to a physical connector. So I can use Bus 1/2, mapped to XLR out 1/2 as my first stereo IEM mix (panning, etc. aside).

But... what I want to do is "have the option" of blending the main FOH output signal (routed to OUT 7/8 by default) into one (or more) of the 5 stereo IEM mixes that the X32 will support with this band. The band mixes from stage, so at least one of us needs to monitor FOH mix levels.  The first 3 IEM mixes are planned to be routed to OUT busses 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 (assigned to physical XLR 1-6) with the two more busses (9/10, 11/12) routed to the AUX 1/2, 3/4 outputs.  This should (as mentioned above) leave busses 13-16 available for effects.

I then want to be able to add individual channels [to taste] to each IEM mix. So for IEM mix #1, I need FOH and various channels routed to XLR 1L/2R ports.

Does this make sense?   I know how to do this WITHOUT main outs patched (pretty simple), but can't figure out where to patch/insert/blend the masters.

Or am I completely off on all of it

[Scott Carneval]

Tim, I understand where you might think that, but I don't believe that's the case.. I believe I know the difference. I know I can route the "main out/master fader" bus to any allowed physical output on the X32.. be that 1 thru 16 (or cards, P16, etc). I also know that 7/8 are assigned by "default". I know I can route a channel to multiple busses and assign a bus to a physical connector. So I can use Bus 1/2, mapped to XLR out 1/2 as my first stereo IEM mix (panning, etc. aside).

But... what I want to do is "have the option" of blending the main FOH output signal (routed to OUT 7/8 by default) into one (or more) of the 5 stereo IEM mixes that the X32 will support with this band. The band mixes from stage, so at least one of us needs to monitor FOH mix levels.  The first 3 IEM mixes are planned to be routed to OUT busses 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 (assigned to physical XLR 1-6) with the two more busses (9/10, 11/12) routed to the AUX 1/2, 3/4 outputs.  This should (as mentioned above) leave busses 13-16 available for effects.

I then want to be able to add individual channels [to taste] to each IEM mix. So for IEM mix #1, I need FOH and various channels routed to XLR 1L/2R ports.

Does this make sense?   I know how to do this WITHOUT main outs patched (pretty simple), but can't figure out where to patch/insert/blend the masters.

Or am I completely off on all of it

Steve, I think I understand what you're trying to do (add FOH mix into one or more band members' IEM mix), but what I don't understand is how said band member is going to discern between the FOH mix and his monitor mix.  How will you know if the excess guitar you're hearing in your IEM is due to too much guitar in the FOH mix, or due to too much guitar in the monitor mix?  If you pulled the individual channels out of your IEM mix to listen to FOH it would ruin your IEM mix every time and you'd have to start from scratch.  It seems easier to me to just put a cue wedge on stage and physically pull out your earbuds if you wanted to adjust FOH.

[Tim McCulloch]

Tim, I understand where you might think that, but I don't believe that's the case.. I believe I know the difference. I know I can route the "main out/master fader" bus to any allowed physical output on the X32.. be that 1 thru 16 (or cards, P16, etc). I also know that 7/8 are assigned by "default". I know I can route a channel to multiple busses and assign a bus to a physical connector. So I can use Bus 1/2, mapped to XLR out 1/2 as my first stereo IEM mix (panning, etc. aside).

But... what I want to do is "have the option" of blending the main FOH output signal (routed to OUT 7/8 by default) into one (or more) of the 5 stereo IEM mixes that the X32 will support with this band. The band mixes from stage, so at least one of us needs to monitor FOH mix levels.  The first 3 IEM mixes are planned to be routed to OUT busses 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 (assigned to physical XLR 1-6) with the two more busses (9/10, 11/12) routed to the AUX 1/2, 3/4 outputs.  This should (as mentioned above) leave busses 13-16 available for effects.

I then want to be able to add individual channels [to taste] to each IEM mix. So for IEM mix #1, I need FOH and various channels routed to XLR 1L/2R ports.

Does this make sense?   I know how to do this WITHOUT main outs patched (pretty simple), but can't figure out where to patch/insert/blend the masters.

Or am I completely off on all of it

I'm not a P16 guru, but it looks like this might be the way to go.  You can create the 6 stereo buses you need and for anyone who doesn't need house L/R, you can use the XLR and AUX jacks; for players that need both, route the stereo buses to P16 (outs 1-12) and L/R to P16 (outs 15-16, save 13-14 for something else).  If all players using the P16s don't need a particular stereo bus mix, you can use its P16 outs for other things.

[Steve Oldridge]

Steve, I think I understand what you're trying to do (add FOH mix into one or more band members' IEM mix), but what I don't understand is how said band member is going to discern between the FOH mix and his monitor mix.  How will you know if the excess guitar you're hearing in your IEM is due to too much guitar in the FOH mix, or due to too much guitar in the monitor mix?  If you pulled the individual channels out of your IEM mix to listen to FOH it would ruin your IEM mix every time and you'd have to start from scratch.  It seems easier to me to just put a cue wedge on stage and physically pull out your earbuds if you wanted to adjust FOH.

Scott, makes perfect sense and I agree.   The band leader mixes FOH, so he'd be the one with the FOH mix and nothing else - or has said that's what he wants, but is NEW to IEM's and has never tried it. Some of the others have expressed an interest in building on top of that, but they (too) are relatively new to IEM mixes and have never. I've been using them for years, and DON'T WANT the FOH mix in my ears.. I want my own mix. The wedge on stage would work great for him, but we'd need to try it. Better than the IEM mix, but it's more stuff to carry to gigs..  there's no sound guy (but me) with this band so I'm researching options up front so we don't lose time - we'll be using the X32 next weekend probably.

I was throwing out the questions on how to do the FOH mix, so "IF" the others wanted to build on it, I'd know how to do it, and also be able to take it away and give them their own (non-FOH) mix.

This X32 is new and en-route, so we don't have it yet. We've been running mono IEM mixes (as we will again this weekend) from the AUX OUTS on my Presonus 16.4.2. from stage for the last gigs (for a number of reasons). While it doesn't have the X32 routing flexibility it does give 5 IEM's mixes. It's VERY easy for a band member to go over, punch their AUX and adjust their levels + effects on the fly.

[Tim McCulloch]

This X32 is new and en-route, so we don't have it yet. We've been running mono IEM mixes (as we will again this weekend) from the AUX OUTS on my Presonus 16.4.2. from stage for the last gigs (for a number of reasons). While it doesn't have the X32 routing flexibility it does give 5 IEM's mixes. It's VERY easy for a band member to go over, punch their AUX and adjust their levels + effects on the fly.

I'm not a presonus user so I can't make a direct comparison, but the "Sends on Faders" works well, especially via ipad/phone or Android remote apps.  From the surface it might involve an extra button press.  Once you get used to the UI difference I think you'll like the X32.

[Steve Oldridge]

I'm not a presonus user so I can't make a direct comparison, but the "Sends on Faders" works well, especially via ipad/phone or Android remote apps.  From the surface it might involve an extra button press.  Once you get used to the UI difference I think you'll like the X32.

Thanks Tim.. yes.. I agree. All the research and reading/watching vids I have done contributed toward the decision to go with the X32 - versus the other contenders, mostly triggered by the old Mackie's 2 monitor mix limit, price point and the bands need for REAL faders on the stage (versus Rack/iPad).

The 16.4.2 is a stop gap measure (as I happen to own one) and in use due to various timings that delayed arrival of the X32.. I think it should arrive today or Monday...
Looking forward to using it! 

[Tommy Peel]

Tim, I understand where you might think that, but I don't believe that's the case.. I believe I know the difference. I know I can route the "main out/master fader" bus to any allowed physical output on the X32.. be that 1 thru 16 (or cards, P16, etc). I also know that 7/8 are assigned by "default". I know I can route a channel to multiple busses and assign a bus to a physical connector. So I can use Bus 1/2, mapped to XLR out 1/2 as my first stereo IEM mix (panning, etc. aside).

But... what I want to do is "have the option" of blending the main FOH output signal (routed to OUT 7/8 by default) into one (or more) of the 5 stereo IEM mixes that the X32 will support with this band. The band mixes from stage, so at least one of us needs to monitor FOH mix levels.  The first 3 IEM mixes are planned to be routed to OUT busses 1/2, 3/4, 5/6 (assigned to physical XLR 1-6) with the two more busses (9/10, 11/12) routed to the AUX 1/2, 3/4 outputs.  This should (as mentioned above) leave busses 13-16 available for effects.

I then want to be able to add individual channels [to taste] to each IEM mix. So for IEM mix #1, I need FOH and various channels routed to XLR 1L/2R ports.

Does this make sense?   I know how to do this WITHOUT main outs patched (pretty simple), but can't figure out where to patch/insert/blend the masters.

Or am I completely off on all of it

I think you could have the IEM mix that the person monitoring FOH uses fed by a pair of Matrices(Left and Right). You could then send a mix of their IEM bus and the Main L/R bus to the Matrices and patch the matrices to the desired physical outputs. Also, even more useful, you could probably configure a pair of user defined buttons(physical or virtual) to mute/unmute the Main L/R and IEM mix feeding the matrices(such as UDK 5 toggles mute for the IEM mix and UDK 6 toggles mute for FOH mix).

[Scott Bolt]

Steve, I do very nearly the exact thing with my X32 Rack and my Furman HDS6 IEM send.

To get the L/R into the single stereo input of the HDS6 from the X32, I use the sends from the L/R to matrix mix 1 and 2.  I then route matrix mix 1 and 2 to AUX output jacks 1 and 2.

I have mono sends going to busses for 1) lead guitar, 2) rhythm guitar, 3) bass, and 4) drums.  Each of those busses is routed to the physical aux outputs 3,4,5, and 6.

The HDR (receiver) then acts as a mixer with 5 pots.  One for the stereo L/R input, and one for each of the other aux mixes.

This also has the side effect of getting wet vocals into the IEM mix.

If a band member doesn't want to use the L/R, he simply turns that knob down all the way and makes his own 4 way mix.

Using the matrix mixes also provides you with a way of controlling the output volume of the L/R going into the IEM send unit since you can tap the bus off pre-fader to prevent overloading the inputs of the IEM send if the output of the mixer gets too hot from the L/R mix.

If you want, send me a PM with your e-mail address and I can send you a scene file showing this routing.

[Tim Padrick]

If you combine the main mix with an aux mix, the two mixes will likely have differing amounts of latency.  The resultant comb filtering will sound quite crappy.

[Scott Wagner]

If you combine the main mix with an aux mix, the two mixes will likely have differing amounts of latency.  The resultant comb filtering will sound quite crappy.

I'm not so sure this is true with the X32, Tim.  All outputs have a 0.3 second latency (by default), you could certainly add more.

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