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Author Topic: Speakers in rocks  (Read 8788 times)

Justice C. Bigler

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Speakers in rocks
« on: June 15, 2014, 10:51:35 PM »

Currently working on a project where the client wants speakers that look like rocks.

Doing a Google search for "speakers in rocks", brings up several companies that specialize in outdoor speakers that look like rocks, one of which is this one from Klipsch...I assume that these are weather proof and goood for use outdoors all year round.

Has anyone used any of these? Any idea how they sound, how loud they get? Does anyone make a powered speaker in a rock?  :-\
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Justice C. Bigler
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2014, 01:14:29 PM »

Currently working on a project where the client wants speakers that look like rocks.

Aw, Justice, you know the war cry of the boards!  Need more info!   ;)

Taking into account that this is posted in the LAB, one would tend to presume you might want to use them for live sound.  Maybe with a lot of processing and an outdoor rock sub (http://www.rockustics.com/index.php/subwoofer-series/) you could add clarity to system, but not as the only speakers in the system.  I've yet to see "professional" main speakers disguised as a rock.

For general residential and commercial background music they work fine and are designed to be left in place year round.  Adding a subwoofer does wonders, as does processing if you are so inclined and looking for more volume.  Adding more speakers to provide better coverage, rather than cranking a single pair would generally be preferable.  Aesthetically speaking, if you can't get an close match to the existing geology already in the installation, a good faux painter can paint the speakers to match what's there.  Reflecting them of a hard surface such as a wall or other rocks can make it more difficult to localize the source(s) especially when some models look like drive-in movie speakers from the Flintsones.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2014, 01:16:42 PM by Lee Douglas »
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2014, 01:30:12 PM »

Which end of the spectrum are you looking?  The ones I know of, are for background music.  If main PA, Danley and I'm sure others can make an all weather, amazing speaker, inside a 'rock'.

Typed on a virtual keyboard. 

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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2014, 02:56:05 PM »

Aw, Justice, you know the war cry of the boards!  Need more info!   ;)


Lol...yeah umm...


An outdoor children's play/classroom area about 3/4 the size of a foot ball field, ringed with as many as 36-48 speakers disguised as rocks and used for announcements and class lectures etc...by teachers or parents, or something...and may or may not be networked to a much larger system that covers most of a mile long corridor of green spaces, parks, and performance spaces. And oh yeah, did I mention that the architects don't want any speakers on poles or in the air?


Also, I'm thinking about a Dugan Auto mixer as a possible application for this...But, instead of running several mics into a single PA, like for a panel discussion...can you run in backwards? with one mic into many speakers to reduce the feedback from the closest couple of speakers?  :o
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Justice C. Bigler
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2014, 03:30:55 PM »

You want to keep the entire system on 1 input, except when individual areas are used for other purpose, perhaps with an emergency "all page" capability?  I'd suggest you look into how hotel ballroom/salon system do auto-combine/auto-separate.  Other than having no air walls, that's kind of what you're looking at...
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Richard Turner

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2014, 03:47:01 PM »

Most of the rock looking speakers direct from china aren't all that great. I've used some generic ones on landscaping projects and they were ok for pre recorded playback at modest volumes.

If you are looking at 4 dozen It might be better to consider a real weatherized name brand speaker and see what a fake rock fibreglass housing would run. That might even be an off the shelf item somewhere
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2014, 04:48:56 PM »

Tim, I sent you an email. I would be eternally greatful for your thoughts.
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Justice C. Bigler
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2014, 04:57:57 PM »

Currently working on a project where the client wants speakers that look like rocks.

Doing a Google search for "speakers in rocks", brings up several companies that specialize in outdoor speakers that look like rocks, one of which is this one from Klipsch...I assume that these are weather proof and goood for use outdoors all year round.

Has anyone used any of these? Any idea how they sound, how loud they get? Does anyone make a powered speaker in a rock?  :-\
I would stay away from anything powered outside

The moisture can cause all sorts of problems with electronics

The cost of running power to each location can get high
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2014, 05:51:05 PM »

Currently working on a project where the client wants speakers that look like rocks.

Doing a Google search for "speakers in rocks", brings up several companies that specialize in outdoor speakers that look like rocks, one of which is this one from Klipsch...I assume that these are weather proof and goood for use outdoors all year round.



Has anyone used any of these? Any idea how they sound, how loud they get? Does anyone make a powered speaker in a rock?  :-\

One of the amusement parks I sometimes gig at have rocks with tiny BOSE labels on them...

They work well for their intended purpose, background music along a footpath.

I rekon they must be quite durable.  This is Norway, and they must have been snowed over about 7 winters in a row by now.
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2014, 05:59:05 PM »

I would stay away from anything powered outside

The moisture can cause all sorts of problems with electronics

The cost of running power to each location can get high


Will moisture affect powered speakers more so than regular passive 110 or 70 volts speakers? This is Oklahoma. Everything will be fully weatherproofed with water tight connections etc...


I have to run either speaker cable, or signal and power to the same locations. This organization isn't worried about the cost of a few dozen power taps for speakers. But they are worried about having box boxes for amplifiers that can be seen or that will otherwise destroy the aesthetics of a grandiose architectural vision.
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Justice C. Bigler
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2014, 07:55:56 PM »

Here is a link to the de facto standard in outdoor architectural speakers.

http://www.ticcorp.com/
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2014, 08:15:46 PM »

Here is a link to the de facto standard in outdoor architectural speakers.

http://www.ticcorp.com/
Oh look...they have speakers in rocks!  :D
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Justice C. Bigler
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2014, 08:59:49 PM »

Okay...so to give a little more information about this project....

This is a massive (the better part of a mile long) park/green space/multi space performance and meeting venue...some might call it a gathering place. This is a three year long project which starts this fall with a year and a half of earth moving. The architects, electrical and construction contractors want to finalize the locations and needs for power and sound and light needs for the event productions aspects of this park in the next couple of months so that they can build the electrical and signal distribution infrastructure into the earth moving process.

A colleague of mine and I have been brought in to consult on the sound, lighting, and production power and facilities needs for this project. The first small piece of this project that we have bitten off is figuring out the power requirements, conduit placement and speaker locations to cover a childrens recreation/outdoor classroom area that is about 200 feet long and 80 or 90 feet wide. So, while I am not at the point of recommending a specific faux-rock-speaker; I need to know what general class of speaker I am going to recommend and what power and signal distribution I need to plan to specify, how many and what their placement is going to be. And yes, I know that the answers to those questions can only be given after I determine what speakers are going to be used.


Having said that, the two opposing specs are for:
1) a passive speaker that only needs a speaker cable run to it, but will have a somewhat large amp rack located somewhere...
Or 2) a powered speaker that will require two conduit runs, one for power and one for signal, but that requires a much smaller rack which can be hidden more easily.


From my research thus far, I have not been able to find an off the shelf rock shaped speaker that is a powered unit. So passive may be the only way to go, unless I want to recommend buying powered speakers with custom fabricated enclosures--which may have to be done anyway, as I'm sure the architects won't want to have three dozen rock shaped speakers that all have the same shape.
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Justice C. Bigler
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2014, 10:10:47 PM »

The company I gave you the link for is capable of supplying you with anything you need for any size installation. I suggest you call them. Large scale is their forte.
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2014, 11:15:09 PM »

The architects, electrical and construction contractors want to finalize the locations and needs for power and sound and light needs for the event productions aspects of this park in the next couple of months...

So will they be lighting everything from the ground as well?  Really if you've got light up the space from above, a couple of speakers that can't be blocked by people shouldn't be a big deal on the same mount.  That said, one of my favorite TIC product is the Omni series.  Properly installed in the ground, they have a decent amount of low end and can be hidden in bushes and flower islands and are available with 70V transformers for running large amount of them in a single run.
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2014, 11:32:35 PM »

So will they be lighting everything from the ground as well?
That is correct. All of the lighting will be from light up walk ways, or the arms rests of park benches that light up, etc...  ::)
Quote
That said, one of my favorite TIC product is the Omni series.  Properly installed in the ground, they have a decent amount of low end and can be hidden in bushes and flower islands and are available with 70V transformers for running large amount of them in a single run.
So you've heard them then? And they don't sound like total and complete ass like normal 70-volt speakers then?
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Justice C. Bigler
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2014, 11:58:46 PM »

So you've heard them then? And they don't sound like total and complete ass like normal 70-volt speakers then?

Used within their parameters, they sound pretty decent for ambient music and light announcement work, especially with larger quantities that are well placed.  They also have an in-ground sub available.  I think with a few well placed electronics locations and a good Cobra-Net system you could zone out and route your audio pretty easily and end up with a system that can be expanded as the space grows.  Like Bob said, give them a call.  It's what they do.

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Tim Weaver

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2014, 12:03:23 AM »

That is correct. All of the lighting will be from light up walk ways, or the arms rests of park benches that light up, etc...  ::) So you've heard them then? And they don't sound like total and complete ass like normal 70-volt speakers then?

They're used in most amusements parks. I'm sure you've heard/seen them before. Processing does help...
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2014, 12:10:04 AM »

They're used in most amusements parks. I'm sure you've heard/seen them before. Processing does help...
Uhhh....I don't go to amusements parks. It's been probably close to 20 years since the last time I went to one.  :o
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Justice C. Bigler
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2014, 12:59:08 AM »

Uhhh....I don't go to amusements parks. It's been probably close to 20 years since the last time I went to one.  :o

You need to get out more and have some fun, Justice. ;)

70v doesn't have to suck, it just requires a budget to match expectations - like any other system.

A thought about the whole passive/self powered thing - if this gets used for purposes yet unforeseen, I suspect that running power to every "location" along the path(s) would be a Really Good Thing®.  It won't be cheaper if done later, and it's ready if a new product or technology surfaces during the earth moving that requires 120v - it's right there in a cable vault.  Power.  Everywhere.  Now.  It also means that the first Earth Day festival held there should not need generators for vendors....

Sounds kind of "Mouse" to me, though they've got the budget to pay for some 'imagineering.'  Nudge, wink.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2014, 02:59:07 AM »

Justice,
I didn't recommend TIC sight unseen or sound not heard. If you call them they can usually assist with the design recommendations based on your needs. It's in their best interest to succeed. Not only for amusement parks, but for anything outside large or small.
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Steven Barnes

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2014, 10:01:18 AM »

Justice,
I didn't recommend TIC sight unseen or sound not heard. If you call them they can usually assist with the design recommendations based on your needs. It's in their best interest to succeed. Not only for amusement parks, but for anything outside large or small.

X2 for TIC, you might also checkout SoundTube if it doesn't have to be a rock. They have some pretty good sounding speakers for what they are. Were install quite a few of them each year.

Also I would second a 70V system of well placed speakers. Nothing in the ground is going to sound as good as some nice full range speakers flown off the poles, but there are definitely some usable solutions out there what should give you what you need.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2014, 06:43:27 PM »

One of their speakers will appear to be a little large and obtrusive if you go by the web site. The deal is it's a 360 degree speaker that you bury and only a few inches protrude above ground. That few inches is circular and the top can be covered with anything. I saw these at a Hilton in a very large atrium. Couldn't find the sound source so I went hunting. Some were covered with mulch, some stones, some under bushes, etc.. The speakers were well placed and there were no lulls in coverage, and the best part was the sound was very good and if I hadn't gone looking for them I would have never found them.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Speakers in rocks
« Reply #22 on: June 17, 2014, 06:43:27 PM »


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