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Author Topic: Advice on iem's  (Read 26952 times)

frank kayser

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2014, 11:45:21 AM »

Very cool idea and so lightweight - love it.

Might be worth the investment.
However, in this case, Mr. guitar player uses a separate amp on a 2x12 cab - not a combo. The amp would be unstable at any angle other than upright.

I have a nice 20x20x20 SKB box on wheels that I use for cables. Last gig I let the bass player use it as a stand for his combo - he has the same problem with volume. Maybe I could let the guitar player use my box and use one of the standback style stands for the bass player .....mmm


Yeah.  I've had troubles with amp separates, and have not come up with a decent solution, either. Maybe a loading strap over the amp and under the speaker...


I have not had much success with bass speaker positioning - it takes quite a distance for the wave to develop, and the cab is basically omni at the lower frequencies anyway.


As an aside, I think that may contribute to many bass players having a poor balance of their bass between lowest note and highest note - the high notes can be heard close up, and therefore sound "right", while the lowest notes are basically flapping and resonating wild - can't hear them? Or maybe they just don't understand their instrument and amp.


Back to OP...
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2014, 12:00:45 PM »


Yeah.  I've had troubles with amp separates, and have not come up with a decent solution, either. Maybe a loading strap over the amp and under the speaker...


I have not had much success with bass speaker positioning - it takes quite a distance for the wave to develop, and the cab is basically omni at the lower frequencies anyway.


As an aside, I think that may contribute to many bass players having a poor balance of their bass between lowest note and highest note - the high notes can be heard close up, and therefore sound "right", while the lowest notes are basically flapping and resonating wild - can't hear them? Or maybe they just don't understand their instrument and amp.



Back to OP...

I am hoping that the iems will help this situation. I will be able to send more guitar and bass to the players phones which will hopefully get them to turn down.
I do fold back their instruments through the wedges but it becomes a bit of a noise when there is so much volume on stage.
Also, the singer complains about hearing too much guitar on the one side and too much bass on the other.
It is only a 4 piece band and they do not spread apart very much- usually not much room around some of these local venues anyway - so they stand real close.
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Luke Geis

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2014, 07:23:02 PM »

I guess I will put in my 2cents. In my experience using earplugs can actually help being able to hear other instruments easier on a loud stage. It removes the room from what you hear and just makes listening to everything a little more comfortable and easy. That is me though. Singers usually don't like it because of the occlussion effect of having your ears plugged.  This effect is carried over with many in ear systems as well. It can be dealt with and minimized with higher quality fitted ear pieces or different materials. I have a custom ear piece made from hard plastic that fits well and doesn't seem to have the occlusion effect.

Having mixed several bands in ear mixes ( some with no success ) I have found it to be a hit or miss when it is a one off. I don't work with any bands that have their own IEM setup. I usually end up with a one off that requires it. I have mixed 14 IEM's with 10 conventional wedges at one time with success, but with a pounding headache......... It is not fun to have to do both, I will leave it at that. To boot, in this case it was all rented gear and not one member had their own ear piece. I was not a happy monitor engineer that day. I was also in charge of over 20 channels of wireless. Moving on.....

Stereo vs. mono mixes. The stereo is helpful to acquire easier localization of the members allowing for less overall volume in the mix. Instead of stacking the mix like pieces of paper ( one atop the other ) you can pan left or right and they seem to pop out of the mix easier. This makes a hole in the center for the artist to be more prominent in. Mono mixes work just fine otherwise though, but I find it takes more work to nail the mix in.

I feel it should be the bands responsibility to have at least their own ear piece. I don't want to use something that was in another persons ear, nobody else probably does either ( except that one damn band ). YOu will also want an earpiece of your own ( preferably the same as the band ) so you can listen in on their mix and hear what they hear. you may also want the ability to eq each mix. It is hard enough to create a really clean mix without the ability to eq each channel in a monitor mix, it's not any easier in an IEM system.

The typical IEM system these days is just as affordable as a comparable conventional monitor rig. The cost seems high from a hardware perspective, but tic for tac, it's about the same cost per mix. The thing I don't like about IEM is that it's wireless usually and the same issues most people have about wireless mics is also true for IEM's. There is companding and it is noticable. The better the system the less noticeable it is. Wired IEM, as with mics, usually sound better and more dynamic.

I think your biggest challenge will to be getting the band to work with you and properly conveying what they need to fix their mix. Outside of that it will be a short learning curve that will hurdled soon enough. As with most things new, it just takes some time. Have fun with your new system and report back.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2014, 10:15:28 PM »

Things are going quite well with the EW300s. I don't get to use them much but I enjoy it when the bands want to use them.  BTW.... I got the rebates from Sennheiser !!!

I was wondering what settings you guys are using on your limiters on the transmitter and receiver.
I am not sure I am getting it right.  I am also confused as to why I need a limiter on both the RX and the TX.
Also, do I need to set the compressor to limit on the aux mixes on the QU16 too?
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brian maddox

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2014, 10:55:33 AM »

Things are going quite well with the EW300s. I don't get to use them much but I enjoy it when the bands want to use them.  BTW.... I got the rebates from Sennheiser !!!

I was wondering what settings you guys are using on your limiters on the transmitter and receiver.
I am not sure I am getting it right.  I am also confused as to why I need a limiter on both the RX and the TX.
Also, do I need to set the compressor to limit on the aux mixes on the QU16 too?

well, i can't give you specifics regarding settings for the Sennheiser, but i can answer part of your question.

You need a limiter in the transmitter to keep you from overloading the RF section of the transmitter and causing distortion.  it also should help prevent 'oops i forgot to mute before i unplugged my bass' pops from blowing out someone's ears.

You need a limiter in the receiver to prevent RF noise spikes from killing someone's ears.  It's also really important to get the gain structure right on these to prevent the same issue.  if you don't hit the transmitter hard enough, the performer will turn up their belt pack to compensate.  if they get an RF hit all that extra gain will go straight to their ears and that can hurt [ask me how i know].

The problem with limiters in receivers is that the sensitivity of various IEM drivers varies wildly, so it's hard to set a single limit point that will work in most cases.  Again, that's why you want to be careful with the gain structure going into your transmitter so the lack of additional headroom in the system will act as a sort of 'automatic limiter' regardless of the sensitivity of the IEM drivers.  hope that makes some sense.

Someone else can chime in with Sennheiser specific info.  i'm a PSM900/1000 user and the limiters on those works very differently.
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brian maddox
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2014, 11:35:20 AM »

well, i can't give you specifics regarding settings for the Sennheiser, but i can answer part of your question.

You need a limiter in the transmitter to keep you from overloading the RF section of the transmitter and causing distortion.  it also should help prevent 'oops i forgot to mute before i unplugged my bass' pops from blowing out someone's ears.

You need a limiter in the receiver to prevent RF noise spikes from killing someone's ears.  It's also really important to get the gain structure right on these to prevent the same issue.  if you don't hit the transmitter hard enough, the performer will turn up their belt pack to compensate.  if they get an RF hit all that extra gain will go straight to their ears and that can hurt [ask me how i know].

The problem with limiters in receivers is that the sensitivity of various IEM drivers varies wildly, so it's hard to set a single limit point that will work in most cases.  Again, that's why you want to be careful with the gain structure going into your transmitter so the lack of additional headroom in the system will act as a sort of 'automatic limiter' regardless of the sensitivity of the IEM drivers.  hope that makes some sense.

Someone else can chime in with Sennheiser specific info.  i'm a PSM900/1000 user and the limiters on those works very differently.
Thanks Brian,

I tend to run the aux outs high on my board, start the packs out at unity and give the control to the musician to be able to turn up. That way, I have less headroom and there is less risk of me increasing the output to crazy levels - it puts the responsibility on the player.

I thought the sensitivity is what controls the RF input in the transmitter and prevents distortion. Why have a limiter too?
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2014, 12:01:35 PM »

One more thing that confuses me regarding getting these levels right is there is also a 'volume boost' setting on the RX.

So on the console I have output control, on the TX  I have sensitivity and limiter  control......and on the RX I have limiter, volume knob and volume boost .....
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2014, 11:20:49 AM »

Since starting to use the iems with one band in particular, I am noticing that the FOH sound is clearer. Hard to describe but it seems like the wedges - even when behaving nicely with zero feedback - were causing unwanted sounds through the FOH which I had gotten used to hearing. Now, everything is sounding clear, clean and separate. I'm not imagining this am I ??
I really enjoy using them and the members of this one band in particular were in love from the first gig.
I do their sound for 90% of their work and they hate going back to wedges because the sound guy they use when I am not available doesn't offer them.
I am so happy I made the investment. It was probably too much of an investment at this point from a financial standpoint but it really has made my job SO much easier.
There was always a point in the evening  when things would start to get cranked up a little and that was when the feedback game started.  Not any more......joy.....
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Luke Geis

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #68 on: June 02, 2014, 05:59:40 PM »

It's not imagination. Simply less destructive sound material being slung around into the mix. With four wedges you would have four points of sound introduction into all open mics, plus that sound would also spill into the house enough to cause destructive comb filtering in the venue. With no wedges you eliminate that many more sources of noise plus no spill of noise back into the mics and venue.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2014, 09:45:43 PM »

It's not imagination. Simply less destructive sound material being slung around into the mix. With four wedges you would have four points of sound introduction into all open mics, plus that sound would also spill into the house enough to cause destructive comb filtering in the venue. With no wedges you eliminate that many more sources of noise plus no spill of noise back into the mics and venue.

Thank you - I am not going mad then !!he he....I think it is one of those things that unless you can compare with and without wedges, you wouldn't even realize how much difference this makes. It is probably the biggest bonus with the iems in my opinion... I hate 'muddy' big time so I'm loving this.....

BTW.... just one ambient mic placed to one side of the stage and left on works like a charm according to the players...."Now, that was easy"....
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Advice on iem's
« Reply #69 on: June 02, 2014, 09:45:43 PM »


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