ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation  (Read 2594 times)

Todd L. Freeman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
"Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« on: May 28, 2014, 02:29:44 pm »

Howdy all...
Our church is preparing for a renovation... pews, carpet, lights and sound.

Our sanctuary is 65' wide with 85' from stage front to back pew. Think "long hall... 12/12 roof from the 60s" and you have it bang on. Very "dead" space due to full carpeting of floor and pews (fronts and backs).

We are currently using a stereo Meyer Sound system with 3 speakers on each side hung 25' above the main floor even with stage front. The 3 speakers on each side are MSL-4, PSW-4 and UPJ-1P. The UPJs are tilted down as front fills. We are feeding them from an Allen Heath GL2400. Our services are 98% dependant on speech intelligibility (conservative/traditional praise taking the other 2%)

We are looking at modern options that would provide the same (WONDERFUL!) sound clarity that we have while doing it in a smaller form factor. I'm tired of "the big ugly hanging speakers" comments over the years and am hoping to take this opportunity to fix the aesthetics as much as possible without loosing sound quality. I've asked around locally and I am having a hard time finding people with enough experience with this system and others to suggest something that could provide the same or better sound clarity. With our great experience I am leaning toward Meyer again... but I was hoping someone here could give suggestions of speakers or systems to check out.

Thanks!
Logged

Tom Young

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 620
Re: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2014, 02:59:33 pm »

For the record: I have designed and commissioned numerous Meyer Sound loudspeaker systems using the components you listed *and* I was also employed by Meyer Sound.

There may be at least one new product from Meyer which would be an integral part of reducing the size of your system and provide as good or better sound quality. I am not sure if this is enough, however.

The system you have appears to be intelligently designed as far as what is needed for the shape and (I think) layout of your sanctuary.

Despite the "dead" characteristics of your space, one must still keep energy from needlessly going up into the ceiling and on the walls or overlapping. One must also project ("throw") the sound to the rear most seating without blasting the closer seating. The point here is that there is no point-source product from Meyer (and 90% of other pro ldspkr manufacturers) that is smaller than the MSL4 that has the required directivity. In almost all cases, high-Q horns demand size to achieve what they do.

You may need to consider another brand.
Logged
Tom Young
Electroacoustic Design Services
Oxford CT
203-888-6217

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 03:10:16 pm »

I would think the "ugly boxes" comments would disappear when the cost of replacing it becomes known.

You own it, so if it sounds good and is in good working condition, i'd say keep it.  Are they painted "church white"?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 03:12:53 pm by dick rees »
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Todd L. Freeman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 03:51:54 pm »

I would think the "ugly boxes" comments would disappear when the cost of replacing it becomes known.

You own it, so if it sounds good and is in good working condition, i'd say keep it.  Are they painted "church white"?

My current line of questioning to them has been "how ugly is it... 5k$ ugly... or 50k$ ugly"... but their response has been for me to seek out options and get back with them.

We left them the standard black since it went well against the nasty fake wood panelling we currently have. With the renovation we'll be re-evaluating the color if we keep the system as is.
Logged

Todd L. Freeman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 04:44:40 pm »

For the record: I have designed and commissioned numerous Meyer Sound loudspeaker systems using the components you listed *and* I was also employed by Meyer Sound.

There may be at least one new product from Meyer which would be an integral part of reducing the size of your system and provide as good or better sound quality. I am not sure if this is enough, however.

The system you have appears to be intelligently designed as far as what is needed for the shape and (I think) layout of your sanctuary.

Despite the "dead" characteristics of your space, one must still keep energy from needlessly going up into the ceiling and on the walls or overlapping. One must also project ("throw") the sound to the rear most seating without blasting the closer seating. The point here is that there is no point-source product from Meyer (and 90% of other pro ldspkr manufacturers) that is smaller than the MSL4 that has the required directivity. In almost all cases, high-Q horns demand size to achieve what they do.

You may need to consider another brand.

Thank you for taking the time to answer... this is the one time I wish our church had worse sound :)  The sound design is VERY even and intelligible... sound pressure is within 3.5db  except for a 9db hot spot in the front of the center aisle (no on sits there luckily :P )

I wish I had a cruddy system so I could spend the money they want me to spend. :)  If I can't come up with a better speaker setup I'll just have to make the rest of the system better. Couple more good mics... maybe upgrade the board if I can convince my volunteers they can run a digital ok :P

Thanks again!
Logged

George Dougherty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 724
Re: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 01:37:07 am »

Thank you for taking the time to answer... this is the one time I wish our church had worse sound :)  The sound design is VERY even and intelligible... sound pressure is within 3.5db  except for a 9db hot spot in the front of the center aisle (no on sits there luckily :P )

I wish I had a cruddy system so I could spend the money they want me to spend. :)  If I can't come up with a better speaker setup I'll just have to make the rest of the system better. Couple more good mics... maybe upgrade the board if I can convince my volunteers they can run a digital ok :P

Thanks again!

One of the top of my list would be Danley.
Logged

Frank DeWitt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 973
    • LBP DI Box
Re: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 02:17:41 pm »

You have wonderful sound clarity and very good coverage and your speakers are 25 ft above the floor so they are way out of the sight line.   CONGRATULATIONS  Good job.  You are done.
Logged
Not to Code

eric lenasbunt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 862
    • Bunt Backline Event Services, LLC
Re: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2014, 06:57:49 am »


You have wonderful sound clarity and very good coverage and your speakers are 25 ft above the floor so they are way out of the sight line.   CONGRATULATIONS  Good job.  You are done.

+1

If you need help spending the church's money give me a call LOL
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8642
  • Atlanta GA
Re: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2014, 07:45:14 am »

You have wonderful sound clarity and very good coverage and your speakers are 25 ft above the floor so they are way out of the sight line.   CONGRATULATIONS  Good job.  You are done.

+1

Don't fix it if it ain't broke.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Jonathan Johnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2863
  • Southwest Washington (state, not DC)
Re: "Better" and smaller sound options for a renovation
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2014, 01:07:21 pm »

Don't mess with what ain't broke. And what ain't broke is your sound quality. Beware of the solution in search of a problem, for it will likely introduce unforeseen problems.

Since what people are complaining about is the visibility of the speaker system, during your renovation you should do what you can to minimize the visibility. Color options to blend in or complement the surrounding environment will go a long way toward this goal, but you also need to consider lighting. Lighting emphasis should be on the stage; there is no reason for anyone to be staring up into the rafters, so you shouldn't need to light up anything up there. Well-planned and executed lighting will be the most effective way to minimize the visibility of the speaker system.

Also consider how your renovations will change the sound. If you modify any surfaces, either by changing the diffusive or absorptive characteristics, the sound of the room will change. (Even something that seems innocuous, such as painting a bare cinder block wall, can affect the acoustics.) You may want to hold off modifying the speaker system until AFTER the renovation is complete. Anything you do during the renovation to minimize the visibility of the speaker system won't be wasted; it will still benefit any new equipment you install.

Maintaining or improving the sound quality with smaller components will be very, very expensive. Your membership may be able to point to other churches with small speakers that work well, but most likely that other sanctuary is significantly different in shape and size than yours. What works in one space will very likely not work in another. Each system needs to be designed for its specific space.
Logged
Stop confusing the issue with facts and logic!
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.088 seconds with 22 queries.