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Author Topic: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.  (Read 13820 times)

Scott Olewiler

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2014, 06:43:54 AM »

Would I be able to simply buy a second sub, or am i going to be required to have a x-over unit either way I go? I would rather have two subs than buy another unit to run one on something built to push two of them. If I purchased another sub of the same make and model, would my EP2000 amp be able to push both to their full potential, or would i still need a crossover or what?
I'd rather have another sub if that would mitigate power and the need to modify cables, etc...?
Guitar Center is VERY far from me, and in the retirement community where I live, there's really no call or market for audio-guys.
I drive 2+ hours to most of my gigs.
All of this has been greatly appreciated and insightful. I appreciate all of you helping me to learn through doing.

James the crossover is a necessity: you need to spilt your signal so that only the high frequenciess, let's say 100hz and up are only going to your top speakers and the low frequencies are only going to your subs. For the speakers you have, a higher crossover point is probably in order, but this is to get the best sound possible. Without it the low frequencies going to your tops will suck all their power and you will not get any where near the performance out of your speakers that you would with the crossover. Adding a crossover gets you more volume out of both the tops and the sub, because you're not asking either to produce frequencies they are not efficient at producing.

Adding another sub will be no improvement.

Given the output of your tops, I see no advantage to adding another sub to this system until you've properly hooked it up with a crossover and had a good listen to it. I believe it will be plenty with just one.
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Brian Jones

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2014, 12:57:33 PM »

James the crossover is a necessity: you need to spilt your signal so that only the high frequenciess, let's say 100hz and up are only going to your top speakers and the low frequencies are only going to your subs. For the speakers you have, a higher crossover point is probably in order, but this is to get the best sound possible. Without it the low frequencies going to your tops will suck all their power and you will not get any where near the performance out of your speakers that you would with the crossover. Adding a crossover gets you more volume out of both the tops and the sub, because you're not asking either to produce frequencies they are not efficient at producing.

Adding another sub will be no improvement.

Given the output of your tops, I see no advantage to adding another sub to this system until you've properly hooked it up with a crossover and had a good listen to it. I believe it will be plenty with just one.

I didn't see anyone else mention some of this. I put it all in context so you know where in the process everything fits.

You should be connecting to the xlr (master) outputs on the ddjsx,

run those directly to the crossover you pick up.

Make sure the crossover you buy can give you a left and right high/mid output and a mono sub/bass output from a single pair of full range inputs.

Then you simply run the mono output to your amp, Follow the directions for running the amp in bridged mono mode, and use the single output from there. You will be using both "sides" of the amp for the single output this way. As mentioned, running two leads into your single sub is wrong. The 2nd connection there is for daisy chaining to another sub if you have more than one. This is known as a parallel connection. If you do end up buying a 2nd sub and running it in parallel off of the first sub, be aware the combined load of the two subs will have twice the power handling capability, and half the impedence (usually going from 8 ohms to 4 ohms) so you need to check if your amp matches up better this way, or by simply running one sub per channel, or by adding a 2nd amp run the same way in bridged mono mode. As others have mentioned, when you run an amp in bridged mono mode, different amps handle that differently. You need to follow the instructions in the manual explicitly. If you don't understand the instructions, ask about the specific language you don't understand. I've been there and know it is frustrating. Manual writers add in lots of stuff that isn't important for your purposes (but is for someone else) and even make mistakes. I remember trying to figure out what a TSR cable was and the manual writer meant TRS. To someone experienced, they would just look at that and know it was a mistake, but as a newbie, I was googling TSR and coming up empty.

Of course, then, hook up your powered tops to the crossover mid/high outputs with XLR and you're done.!

Good luck.

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jasonfinnigan

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2014, 01:05:34 AM »

I hate to be the one to sound like a jerk here but, if you don't know how to even connect up a basic system you really shouldn't be trying it. Forums are a great resource however you can't teach someone over forums how to do these tasks very well.


I'd suggest finding someone local to help you or maybe find some YouTube videos to help you. The Yamaha sound book is a good resource as well.

Maybe this would help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MChYalokpdU
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Steve M Smith

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2014, 02:57:32 AM »

I'm sure in the past, we have all connected stuff up without knowing exactly what we were doing.

The smart thing being shown here by the op is asking for advice.

It's not rocket science and it's didficult to get it very wrong to the extent where damage can occur - other than connecting the outputs of the crossover the wrong way round putting sub frequencies into higher frequency speakers.


Steve.


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James W Thomas

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2014, 09:07:27 PM »

I am going to go ahead and order the CX2310 Crossover unit, so all I need to know is what cabling to buy to hook up the VP1800s and EP2000 to the CX2310.
I will also be buying another VP1800s sub, so I need to know what I will need to avoid stipping wires and dealing with a mono-bridge.
As of now I have two speakon to 1/4" cables with Speakon Adapters on each (basically speakon-to-speakon). I am assuming I will need XLR, what configuration (male to female, etc...)?
Contrary to some folks opinions and beliefs, there is VERY little in the way of a layman learning how to do this outside of a forum or asking those who DO know. Nothing is presented in a "lets get started" manner, and from what I'm reading, each company for each of these types of equipment is finicky and unique in its' own way. I know I didn't pick the greatest setup, but I am self-made and worked very hard to get the limited funds i had, and i got what I could get at the time.
I appreciate everyone helping me out with advice and links to knowledge bases, but redundant responses and things not related to this question are not welcome here and will be ignored.
Be helpful, or be silent on this issue please.
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2014, 09:32:19 PM »


Contrary to some folks opinions and beliefs, there is VERY little in the way of a layman learning how to do this.

Actually Yamaha and many other companies are big on training and have lots of resources. I always point people to and they usually learn a lot form them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MChYalokpdU
http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reinforcement-Handbook-Gary-Davis/dp/0881889008/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1AWF950_VE

There's much much more out there.
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Rob Spence

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2014, 09:37:03 PM »

Rane has some great white papers that explain the basics.

Download a manual from Mackie for one of their mixers and read it. They have great diagrams.

Basics:
XLR cables are used for microphones and line level balanced signals.
With audio, the male end (the one that has pins visible) is the output. The female is an input. Most cables have a male on one end and a female on the other.
For example, a microphone will have a male connector built in. The mixer will have a female connector for each microphone input channel.
Most often, the mixer will have male XLR connectors on the outputs (they may also have 1/4" TRS outputs).
So, you connect outputs to inputs. Mic out to mixer in, mixer out to crossover in, crossover out(s) to amplifier (or powered speaker) inputs.

Often, speakers have a nominal impedance of 8 ohms. If you put 2 in parallel (by daisy chaining from one to the other for example) you now have a nominal 4 ohm load for the amplifier. If the speakers are 4 ohms, then you have 2 ohms.

Most amplifiers will work with loads from 2-8 ohms on each channel. If you bridge the amplifier, then the resulting configuration will work with loads of 4-8 ohms (not 2 ohms).

Ok, I am typed out.  Hope this helps.



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Scott Holtzman

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2014, 09:54:11 PM »

Ok, you bought another sub and a crossover.  That's good.  Does the crossover have XLR in's and outs?

Does your DJ thing that makes noise have XLR outputs for Right and Left full range?

A crossover divides the frequencies between highs and lows (this is in your case).  This is very important as not sending the lower frequencies to the tops will make them more efficient. 

Does the crossover also have a High pass filter on the low frequency output?  It is important that you don't send sound lower than the frequency the cabinet resonates at.  The woofer will unload and destroy itself.

The connection is simple - source to crossover crossover to amplifiers, amplifiers to speakers.

Let me give you some opinion here.

Is there any chance you can return all this stuff?   Frankly it's just not what you need.  The podium pro speakers should be at best a transitional solution until you can afford some pro gear.

What kind of music do you play?  The younger folks are going to want you to play music at levels that you are not equipped to do with this gear.  If you are playing to older audiences then you are barely going to use the Behringers as a heavy bass track is not what they will be after.

Next topic.  The Behringers are not going to survive many moves unless you are very cautious.  They are stapled together and have a reputation of being destroyed in shipping.  I salvaged someones by carefully reinforcing the inside of the box with MDF, I used glue and an air nailer trying not to change the volume of the enclosure.  The little board that divides the ports will be the first to go.  Are you handy with carpentry?

Why do I ask if you can send it back?  Lugging around a 130 pounds of speaker and amp, making the connections and setting up a crossover (and really an equalizer as you need the HPF I mentioned, a consumer EQ won't do) is a lot of work for a DJ.  You would have been much better off.  With two subs, the amp, a crossover and an EQ you have to be close to a grand.  That would have bought you a much higher quality powered subwoofer with a crossover built in.

More thoughts, have you checked your mains to see if they have a crossover?

Afterthought, an EQ like the FBQ6200 has an HPF and a crossover.  Kill three birds one stone.   One more update, that may be a lot of EQ for you.  An FBQ1502 has High Pass Filter, summing crossover and an EQ, punch this number into eBay 310978574365, it should make you smile.  The seller Union Squared has been around forever.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I want you to know what you are facing.



« Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 01:16:25 AM by Scott Holtzman »
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Rob Spence

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2014, 12:07:25 AM »



Does the crossover also have a low pass filter?  It is important that you don't send sound lower than the frequency the cabinet resonates at.  The woofer will unload and destroy itself.



I think you mean High Pass filter (low cut).

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Scott Holtzman

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2014, 01:14:53 AM »

I think you mean High Pass filter (low cut).

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Ooops he is absolutely right.  Need to proofread better.

I corrected the post.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2014, 01:14:53 AM »


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