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Author Topic: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.  (Read 13819 times)

James W Thomas

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New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« on: May 25, 2014, 07:53:48 PM »

Hello. My name is James, and I am a mobile DJ.
Recently, I decided to "step up my game", quit restricting myself to nightlife-gigs, and focus more on events like weddings and trade shows (for ex.). I realized that for me to do so, I had to come equipped with my own sound-system as opposed to just wiring into house-systems as I've done for years.
I bought a Behringer VP1800s subwoofer, and bought a Behringer EP2000 power amp to power it.
I know next to nothing about hooking these things up, and don't want to set/do anything without advice from a professional. According to everything I have read, this amp is made to power this (Eurolive/Europower)
line of Behringer products.
I have exhausted my current budget, so I need to know how to utilize this to its' potential, where to station my knobs on the amp, and generally how not to blow anything out.
The first time I fired it up, I incrementally increased the knobs on both the PA and my digital DJ'ing "decks" (the Pioneer DDJSX). It grew hot, and then cut itself off, along with powering everything else off as well (laptop, etc). I fired it up again and lowered everything to make sure i didn't blow/burn-out anything, and now I will leave it alone until I am secure in the knowledge required to operate my investment.
I DO have a pretty generic powered 6-channel mixer, 2x 8" (powered) 400w monitors mounted on tripods, the DDJ-SX, and the Behringer Sub/Amp combo. I have no idea how to use the mixer, so I don't have it hooked up, but I am assuming that I will need to implement it somehow in this setup. I have been running the DDJ straight into the inputs on back of the amp per 1/4"-RCA cables (RCA end being in the back of the DDJSX). I can't afford to screw this up or have to repair it...
PLEASE HELP!!!   :-\
The manual is not helpful, the website is not helpful, and everything I do find is geared toward people who understand the terminology entailed in live-sound.
We all start somewhere, so I would greatly appreciate ANYONE willing to help me do so.
Cheers!
            James "DJ Shade Chylde" Thomas
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 07:58:40 PM by James W Thomas »
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Thomas Le

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2014, 09:14:53 PM »

It would be helpful to list out all equipment brand names and model names in full to give more detailed help.

If you have powered speakers, make sure to NOT plug them in from the amp output from the powered mixer. In this case, you can ditch the powered mixer as there's no need for it since there are no passive tops.

What I'd do based on what you're giving us:
- Run your DDJ-SX outputs to the powered speakers inputs.
- Run the loop out from the left powered speaker if it has one to the amp input.
- Set the amp to bridged mono, parallel inputs and turn on clip limiter via DIP switches in back.
- Run the amp output to your sub.
- Control the sub output using Ch. 1 knob on amp.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 09:21:44 PM by Thomas Le »
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Scott Olewiler

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2014, 07:42:39 AM »

It would be helpful to list out all equipment brand names and model names in full to give more detailed help.

If you have powered speakers, make sure to NOT plug them in from the amp output from the powered mixer. In this case, you can ditch the powered mixer as there's no need for it since there are no passive tops.

What I'd do based on what you're giving us:
- Run your DDJ-SX outputs to the powered speakers inputs.
- Run the loop out from the left powered speaker if it has one to the amp input.
- Set the amp to bridged mono, parallel inputs and turn on clip limiter via DIP switches in back.
- Run the amp output to your sub.
- Control the sub output using Ch. 1 knob on amp.
+1 on using the clip limiter. Page 9 of your EP2000 manual shows you positions for dip switches for bridged set-up.

If you're using amp in bridged mode you also must either wire your sub to the red binding posts only, OR if you are using speakon cables, on the end that plugs into the amp, you will need to take the connector apart and move the wire located at  1- and move it to 2+.  That end must then always go into the channel 1 output on the amp.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2014, 12:21:51 PM »

OR if you are using speakon cables, on the end that plugs into the amp, you will need to take the connector apart and move the wire located at  1- and move it to 2+.  That end must then always go into the channel 1 output on the amp.

Better to make an adaptor, otherwise you might confuse your non-standard cable with a normal cable... or at least mark it up so it can't be inadvertently used.


Steve.
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James W Thomas

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2014, 03:26:27 PM »

I have 2 Podium Pro PP802A Powered Monitors (Each independently powered, each with it's own amp built into the back), and I was aware that it would be a bad idea to run powered speakers into an amp. They are connected through 1/4" outputs on the back of the DDJ-SX labelled "Booth Out".

I have an 8-channel 1/4" male to RCA male cable run from the "Master Out 2" outputs in the back of the DDJ-SX (I don't have the XLR cables to go through "Master Out 1") run into the back of the Behringer EP2000 amp.

THIS is where it gets slightly convoluted. I AM, in fact, using speakon cables, but they are speakon to 1/4" male cables. Each 1/4" end of both speakon to 1/4" cables has an adapter (1/4" female, converting them to speakon). So in essentiality, they are simply speakon cables, though I have to wonder if those adapters compromise power management.

The adapter-converted end of each of those speakon cables is in the back of the Behringer EP2000, and each cable goes from there to the speakon inputs in the back of the VP1800s sub.

***DESPITE WHAT THE MANUAL SHOWS***
There ARE no 1/4" inputs in the back of the VP1800s sub. Only two speakon ports.

For all intents and purposes, lets forget the powered speakers, as they're run through a completely different channel on the back of my DDJ-SX (which I am now assuming alleviates the need for a mixer).

Please try to speak layman to me, to explain what the technical jargon in the manual (or that someone famliar with owning their own audio-system) has given me. I don't understand it, Guitar Center wouldn't advise me since they don't carry/I didn't buy the product through them.

Keep in mind, I AM an educated man who is able to learn quickly, but you need to approach me as though I've not dealt with this sort of thing before, because I haven't. I'm used to walking in, setting up on a house system, adjusting the EQ on a P.A., and then rocking out.

Please explain the "Clip/Limiter/Switches" settings to me, as I've not messed with ANY of that since I unboxed the amp, and am stumped there.

This might as well "all be Greek to me".  xD
I greatly appreciate the help guys.
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Thomas Le

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2014, 04:15:11 PM »

Before messing with the DIP switches, be sure to turn off the amp.

For using the DIP switches on the back of the amp, it's just a matter of using a small flathead screwdriver to move the switches to their corrective positions based on what the legend says for setting which settings you want to use.

In this case:
- To use the clip limiter, turn on DIP switches 1 & 10
- To turn on bridged mode, turn on DIP switches 6 & 7
- To use parallel inputs, turn on DIP switches 4 & 5
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Sander Rooijens

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2014, 05:48:12 AM »


The adapter-converted end of each of those speakon cables is in the back of the Behringer EP2000, and each cable goes from there to the speakon inputs in the back of the VP1800s sub.

Just to be clear... you are running 2 cables from both of the outputs of the amplifier into the 2 parallel speakon connectors on one single sub?

If so then STOP doing that immediately! That explains the amplifier overheating and shutting down.

S.R.
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Geoff Doane

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2014, 10:17:22 AM »

Just to be clear... you are running 2 cables from both of the outputs of the amplifier into the 2 parallel speakon connectors on one single sub?

If so then STOP doing that immediately! That explains the amplifier overheating and shutting down.

S.R.

Good catch Sander.  That certainly explains why the sub wasn't loud, but the amp overheated and shut down.

To the OP:  The information you need (different configurations and connections) is there in the manual,

http://www.behringer.com/assets/EP2000_P0A38_M_EN.pdf

but if you don't understand either the verbiage or the drawings, I'm not sure there is much any of us can do with just words.  I don't really want to add to your misery, but to do this properly, you really need some kind of crossover to send an appropriately conditioned signal to the sub, (and an appropriate signal to the stereo mains) even before you wire the sub to a bridged amp.  The EP2000 appears not to have any kind of crossover (high and low filter, in very simple terms) built into it.

Obviously Guitar Center didn't sell you the stuff (since they're on the outs with BearRinger).  Did somebody else advise you on the purchases you made?  I think what you need is someone local to configure and package the system in a manner that will work for your needs, and give you some personal instruction on how to set it up.

GTD
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John DiNicola

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2014, 06:41:52 PM »

Dear James,
Geoff is correct that you should really use a crossover between the DDJ-SX and the EP2000, so that only the low frequency signals get to your subwoofer. This makes for a much more efficient system, as your subs are handling only low frequencies while your tops handle only the higher ones. You can find a number of affordable crossovers out there for around $100, such as our CX2310: http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/CX2310.aspx. This particular model will also provide with you a Mono Sub output (with both the left and right signals) for connecting to Ch 1 on the EP2000, as Ch 2 is not used in Mono-Bridged Mode.

MOST Importantly:
As Sander points out, you do not want to be running two cables from the amp to the sub. Instead, when using Speakon cable in Mono-Bridged mode, one end of the cable must be modified as Scott suggests (Wire located at 1- in the connector moves to 2+). I would advise seeking assistance preparing this cable, as this is crucial to prevent damage to your amp/sub. You can read more by google searching information on Mono Bridge Speakon Wiring.

The setting of the DIP switches on the amp are also important. These are located on the back of the amp near the inputs and simply allow you to configure different settings for the amp. There is a diagram on the back of the EP2000 that tells you what each switch will do, and the proper settings for your application are in Fig. 3.6 on page 9 of the manual. Here are some explanations:

The clip/limiter makes sure that you do not overload the inputs to the amplifier, which helps prevent distorted signals that can/will harm you speakers from being amplified and sent to them. This is why you will want to engage these for both inputs (switches 1 and 10).

The low-cut filter removes the lowest frequencies from the signal, but this is not necessary since you are connecting to subwoofers. This is why switches 3 and 8 are disengaged. Switches 2 and 9 configure the cut-off point for the low-cut filter, and can also be disengaged.

Parallel output mode allows you to send a single input channel to both amplifier outputs. Since we will be using mono-bridged mode, these switches (#4 and 5) can be disengaged. Switches 6 and 7 activate mono-bridged mode, which is why these are engaged.

The good news is that once you have your amp and cabling configured for your application, the system should be fairly simple going forward. Please feel free to reach out to me via PM should you need any additional assistance. You can also contact our Tech Support staff in our CARE department for help at 702-800-8290 in the US or [email protected].

Best,
John DiNicola
Manager, Channel Marketing
MUSIC Group
BEHRINGER
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James W Thomas

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Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2014, 11:09:07 PM »

Would I be able to simply buy a second sub, or am i going to be required to have a x-over unit either way I go? I would rather have two subs than buy another unit to run one on something built to push two of them. If I purchased another sub of the same make and model, would my EP2000 amp be able to push both to their full potential, or would i still need a crossover or what?
I'd rather have another sub if that would mitigate power and the need to modify cables, etc...?
Guitar Center is VERY far from me, and in the retirement community where I live, there's really no call or market for audio-guys.
I drive 2+ hours to most of my gigs.
All of this has been greatly appreciated and insightful. I appreciate all of you helping me to learn through doing.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: New to Live Pro Audio, I Really Need Help.
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2014, 11:09:07 PM »


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