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Author Topic: EAW SB2001 Opinions  (Read 2229 times)

Peter Morris

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2014, 10:40:33 am »

Huh ?

A properly designed horn like the DBH will have lower harmonic distortion, better impulse response and a better phase response than a reflex or band pass enclosure.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:45:33 am by Peter Morris »
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Brandon Wright

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2014, 10:40:54 am »

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2014, 12:26:08 pm »

give me a break Ivan   ;) ... EAW's 2001 sensitivity is quoted 95 dB W/m your brochure says the DBH is 117 dB, but if you look at your frequency response graph its more like 110 dB minus 6 dB for 1/2 space less another 6 for the 1 watt one meter figure, that's 98 dB average 30hz to 80Hz ... so the DBH is more like 3 dB louder than the EAW in use, which is about what I would expect ... and because it a horn it will be more accurate... and that's exactly what Caleb described  :)

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure its a great box and I would be proud to own some.
Yet another example of not reading the provided information.

The sensitivity is NOT speced at 117dB-but rather it is stated that at 100hz it will produce 117dB.  We also show the response that shows where that number came from.

Many companies simply state a number-and you have no idea where it came from-at what freq etc. 

We simply provide that number for the guys that are looking for a larger number.  But we also state the freq it is at.

We also state that it is measure in half space on the spec sheet.

To me-whole space measurements of subs are pretty worthless.

I would love to know of a situation in which BOTH the sub or the listener are in whole space (at the sub frequencies).

When EITHER one is in half space (such as standing on the ground -most people don't float in the air) you get the additional gain of half space loading.  But you don't get it twice if both the listener and speaker are on the ground.

So again-the measurement is done so as to predict real world situations.

Full range cabinets are a different story.  At the mid and high freq a person standing or seated on the ground is not in half space (for those freq) and if the speaker is flying, then both could be in "whole space", so that type of measurement is correct for that intended usage.

You will see the same thing in some of our other full range products-such as the monitors.  They are measured in half space-figuring that most of the time they will be sitting on a floor or stage-so the measurement should reflect the intended usage of a product-not some "arbitrary standard" that does not reflect the real intended usage.

The whole idea of a spec sheet (at least to me) is provide valuable information so the user can know what to expect out of the product.

I'm sorry, but that is my opinion and people are welcome to disagree with it, but I will stand behind it and back it up as to why I feel that way.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Jens Droessler

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2014, 09:31:00 pm »

When EITHER one is in half space (such as standing on the ground -most people don't float in the air) you get the additional gain of half space loading.  But you don't get it twice if both the listener and speaker are on the ground.
I don't think that's right. If that was true, a subwoofer in the air would give the same impact/SPL to people on the ground as the same subwoofer on the ground to people on the ground. That's not the case. And if you think a bit further, your statement would mean that a subwoofer placed in the corner of a room would give the same SPL 20m away on any point in the room, no matter if the listener is on the floor, in 3m height in mid air far away from any wall or even standing in the corner. Anyone can debunk this one very easily at home, right?
Of course that's just my opinion, but I think we get a double gain by placing subs and people on the ground.
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Cailen Waddell

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2014, 11:37:24 pm »


I don't think that's right. If that was true, a subwoofer in the air would give the same impact/SPL to people on the ground as the same subwoofer on the ground to people on the ground. That's not the case. And if you think a bit further, your statement would mean that a subwoofer placed in the corner of a room would give the same SPL 20m away on any point in the room, no matter if the listener is on the floor, in 3m height in mid air far away from any wall or even standing in the corner. Anyone can debunk this one very easily at home, right?
Of course that's just my opinion, but I think we get a double gain by placing subs and people on the ground.

SPL and impact are different.  I would expect a sub on the ground to offer additional tactile experience due to the shared floor, but not more SPL (if I understand all the math, and I may not), assuming the patron is on the ground.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Peter Morris

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2014, 03:31:15 am »

I don't think that's right. If that was true, a subwoofer in the air would give the same impact/SPL to people on the ground as the same subwoofer on the ground to people on the ground. That's not the case. And if you think a bit further, your statement would mean that a subwoofer placed in the corner of a room would give the same SPL 20m away on any point in the room, no matter if the listener is on the floor, in 3m height in mid air far away from any wall or even standing in the corner. Anyone can debunk this one very easily at home, right?
Of course that's just my opinion, but I think we get a double gain by placing subs and people on the ground.

I think Ivan is correct ... (but I still don't like his spec's)  ;D .. this paper may help explain what happens.

http://www.fulcrum-acoustic.com/assets/pdf/whitepapers/comments-on-half-space.pdf

In practice things are slightly different because we are dealing with sub arrays not point sources and your ear is far enough away form the boundary to have some impact at bass frequencies.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 03:48:26 am by Peter Morris »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2014, 07:43:28 am »

I don't think that's right. If that was true, a subwoofer in the air would give the same impact/SPL to people on the ground as the same subwoofer on the ground to people on the ground. That's not the case. And if you think a bit further, your statement would mean that a subwoofer placed in the corner of a room would give the same SPL 20m away on any point in the room, no matter if the listener is on the floor, in 3m height in mid air far away from any wall or even standing in the corner. Anyone can debunk this one very easily at home, right?
Of course that's just my opinion, but I think we get a double gain by placing subs and people on the ground.
Things you have to consider.  When looking at SPL you have to keep the distance from the source the same to compare.

If a sub in the air is 20' away from a listener as compared to a sub that is 6' away on the ground from a listener-then of course the 6' will be louder.

That is EXACTLY why I like to fly subs in an install.  You do not decrease the distance to the furthest listener-but you DO decrease the distance to the closest listener.

This results in a much more even sub SPL level over the whole room.  Now if you want the SPL to be louder at the stage-then put the subs on the ground-it depends on what you are after in the design.

Tactile impact is another thing.  When the subs physically couple to the structure, they will "transmit" the vibrations better-which can result in a feeling of more bass-even though the actual SPL is not there.

That is exactly how butt shakers work for drummer and home theaters etc.

Boundary effects and how sub energy builds up in a room is a completely different situation than simply flying or ground stacking subs.

When doing comparison tests- you can have only ONE variable.  If you have more than one-getting accurate -usable-meaningful results is A LOT harder to do.

You may get "results" but do they mean anything?
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Dave Gunnell

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2014, 10:28:21 am »

This thread wandered off in the wrong direction...

Who else has experience with this sub?  I came across a line array shootout here where several of the observers decided that the SB2001 was their favorite sub hands down (up against offerings from EV, RCF, DAS, Turbo, Vue).  One reviewer commented that "the EAW subs ate everything else in room."  Another reviewer remarked "the SB2001's have the capability to vibrate the contact lenses out of someone's eyes."  And another posted "the eight EAW SB2001 double 21 subs absolutely rocked the venue and were my favorite overall."  So they were very well received.

Another question I just thought of: the SB2001 is 33.5" wide.  My current subs are 30" wide, wondering if 33.5" starts to get you into trouble getting in/out of building entrances/exits.  I believe the ADA minimum door spec is 32"...
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joejiorle

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2014, 12:13:29 pm »

The SB2001 have 4 swivel casters on the bottom of the box, unlike the SB1000s which have 2 dumb casters. Getting them in through a door shouldn't be an issue.
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Bill Schnake

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Re: EAW SB2001 Opinions
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2014, 03:19:45 pm »

This thread wandered off in the wrong direction...
That is an understatement.  Upfront I will state that I am a huge EAW fan.  We have used the SB1000zR and SB2001.  I have not use the Danley subs.  I can tell you that we can do a large fair with a crowd of between 3,000 and 4,000 with a 3/3 a side KF850T/SB2001 and the low end sounds great.  We use this system for several of the shows we do each year.

Hope that helps.

Bill 
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Bill Schnake

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