Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Steve M Smith]

Saw a great bumper sticker on the back of a plumber's van:  "Good is never cheap, and cheap is never good."

My favourite sticker seen on the back of a van:

'No sandwhiches are kept in this van overnight'


Steve.

[Jim McKeveny]

Consolidation on the promoter front has also lead to vendor abuse. LiveNation approached the owner of my old soundco about a year-long block of dates at NYC's Town Hall, then wished him to match absurd pricing with the bottom feeder they are using. "No. Thank you." was reply.

[Curtis H List (Too Tall)]

Stages and roofs fall down/blow away on a regular basis.
People claim to be riggers because their key chain is on a Carabiner.
My guess is the only way to get a foothold is having excellent staff and forget the $500 gigs, unless they come to you.

Many years ago a local company had a big dinner meeting.
This is a VERY large and powerful International company.
Since this is the internet we will call it “Company X”.

For their meeting they needed one vocal mic, a powered head, speakers. Add in mic stand and cables etc.
 A vice president took a low ball price from a typical Music Store.
It robbed gear off the shelves and took off the tags.

Whoever they sent out took only what they needed and no back up.
Perhaps whoever they sent knew how to hook up the gear, maybe not.

Did they hook up all the gear up before it left the shop?
Most likely they did not?

 In any case it did not work.
I believe Company X was short one Vice President that day.
I never found out for sure, but the Vice President that did contact us was VERY nervous.
The Sound Company hired me to find the gear, hook everything in the shop to test and do the show.
We took two of EVERYTHING. Even people.
They hired another helper, who knows enough to do the gig himself.
They figured having more people would reassure them.

So 10 minutes of work and an hour of iced Shrimp, etc.

[Matt Vivlamore]

I see these post a lot about how people are losing to low ball bidders… and complaining…  I often think.

1) Well maybe you have over priced for the event?
Recently I was traveling with the Band and the Owner said find out what production costs are in that area VS me paying you a couple days.  I did, I was very details in my description of what I needed for my event (Digital Mixer with iPad connection and SRX722/SRX728 equivalent rig and accessories).  The Bids came in; the lowest for $3000 and he was bringing in 2x QSC KW153 & 4x KW181 & PreSonus StudioLive console.  I even had a bid that came in over $10K (Avid Venue & 3x Meyer MSL4 over 3x 650P per side and the tops being flown).  Most of the quotes averaged right around $4,500.  But the Best LMAO quote was: $5000; Mackie TT24 console, 10 Carvin LineArray & 6 Dual 18s and JBL Eon as wedges.
In the end I ended up driving my gear down 10 hours.  I was paid my show rate for 3 days and was given the company credit card for Fuel & Food; I also had a hotel room for 2 nights.  And I even saved the agency money. 


2) Maybe you are no longer getting those high paying gigs because you’re not up to the clients standards?
There is a guy in my local area who used to be big in the corporate world in the 90’s.  He spent a ton of money on gear upgrade and stayed in the Corpy world for a few years and then slowly started losing gigs.  And he couldn’t figure out why.  Well, he hasn’t upgraded any of his gear; his gear sometimes works; his gear looks like it’s been to hell and back.


3) Maybe your not as good as you think you are?
I know a production company that rents EVERYTHING for each gig... and then adds a what they want to make for the gig on top of that.

[John Chiara]

Bad thing here is the buyers send out bid proposals with NO requirements....asking for gear appropriate to the event, when they have NO IDEA what that even means. So providers keep bidding it down and sending out as little as possible with 3rd string crews. No one complains as they didn't know what they actually needed on the first place.... And on and on....and you all know that once a price range gets established it is impossible to convince someone they they are paying too little. If they do figure it out, then they want better at the same price.

[John Penkala]

I see these post a lot about how people are losing to low ball bidders… and complaining…  I often think.

1) Well maybe you have over priced for the event?
Recently I was traveling with the Band and the Owner said find out what production costs are in that area VS me paying you a couple days.  I did, I was very details in my description of what I needed for my event (Digital Mixer with iPad connection and SRX722/SRX728 equivalent rig and accessories).  The Bids came in; the lowest for $3000 and he was bringing in 2x QSC KW153 & 4x KW181 & PreSonus StudioLive console.  I even had a bid that came in over $10K (Avid Venue & 3x Meyer MSL4 over 3x 650P per side and the tops being flown).  Most of the quotes averaged right around $4,500.  But the Best LMAO quote was: $5000; Mackie TT24 console, 10 Carvin LineArray & 6 Dual 18s and JBL Eon as wedges.
In the end I ended up driving my gear down 10 hours.  I was paid my show rate for 3 days and was given the company credit card for Fuel & Food; I also had a hotel room for 2 nights.  And I even saved the agency money. 


2) Maybe you are no longer getting those high paying gigs because you’re not up to the clients standards?
There is a guy in my local area who used to be big in the corporate world in the 90’s.  He spent a ton of money on gear upgrade and stayed in the Corpy world for a few years and then slowly started losing gigs.  And he couldn’t figure out why.  Well, he hasn’t upgraded any of his gear; his gear sometimes works; his gear looks like it’s been to hell and back.


3) Maybe your not as good as you think you are?
I know a production company that rents EVERYTHING for each gig... and then adds a what they want to make for the gig on top of that.

Matt,
        I know you love what you do and are probably very good at it,  but do you see even a little irony in your post?

JP

[Matt Vivlamore]

Matt,
        I know you love what you do and are probably very good at it,  but do you see even a little irony in your post?

JP

Well I think if your losing out to a $300 bid... its Lounge type gig.  Its a gig that probably not even worth the headache.

[Ray Aberle]

I know a production company that rents EVERYTHING for each gig... and then adds a what they want to make for the gig on top of that.

Gosh, a business model where you don't have to ever actually own anything (and the associated depreciation, repairs and maintenance, upgrades and so on)? But you can rent it out and make money? That's the way to do it.

I mean seriously, if this company is making money doing this, and their clients are happy (and returning) then I don't see anything wrong with that. But, I don't equate that scenario to "not being as good as you think you are," though.

Either way-- saw a post over on ProAudioSpace a couple years ago about events and pricing. The blogger mentioned a client that had left him for a lower priced option, and  when he went to check out the event... all hell was breaking lose. The new production people had sound that was way to loud for the space, and as it was a benefit auction, they took a sizable hit ($60K!) with their fundraising-- and the next Monday, he approached them, mentioned they probably weren't using the same vendor again, and offered his services once again. They booked on the spot for the next year!

So, sometimes it does take a bad event with the low baller to show a client *why* you are worth what you charge. Go in, do the best job possible and make sure you WOW the client with your performance and your service, and they're going to see why you are worth what you're charging. (Unless you have dated gear, of course, or are way over priced for the area. If you quote me $2K for a weekend rental of a pair of Mackie 450s, I would say no. Haha.)

-Ray

[TJ (Tom) Cornish]

I've written this before somewhere, but this topic comes up every few months.

1.  Customers are always motivated to the lowest price.  This isn't inherently a bad thing.
2.  Customers are generally a poor judge of value - they are often unwilling or unable to learn about their requirements, and consequently ask for "a microphone", instead of a system.
3.  In light of #1 and #2 above, if a customer is presented with a cheaper offer, they will almost certainly give it a try, which results in one of the following outcomes:
- The event fails due to expectations not being met/clueless lowball provider, etc. and the client is at least partially educated that there can be more to this than simply price.  Hopefully this leads to a correction and the client booking with a better provider next time.
- The event turns out just fine, because their expectations were met by the lower-cost provider - no-name brand gear worked fine, no one died, etc.  In this case the error is at least partially on the side of the "high-cost/incumbent/you" - not understanding the client's real requirements and bidding a system or services that were more than what the client actually needed.

Price negotiation is an art - particularly on things where there can be an incredible cost difference for something somewhat intangible - brand name gear, "sound quality", etc.

If you want to make a lot of money, go be a proctologist, a garbage collector, or something else that people are unwilling to do for cheap because it's fun. 

[Brian Jojade]

Price negotiation is an art - particularly on things where there can be an incredible cost difference for something somewhat intangible - brand name gear, "sound quality", etc.

There should be very little price negotiation in quoting a system.  Set your prices for labor, gear rental and transport and stick to it.   What you need to do is sell what you've got, at the price you're asking. If the customer wants a lower price, then find out what you can CUT from the show to hit their target budget.  It's negotiating the sale, but not negotiating the price.

Knowing what your competition offers is extremely valuable so that you can offer comparisons.  However, if what the competition offers is acceptable to the customer, getting them to rent your more expensive gear is going to be a challenge.  You could lower your price to match the competition, but if you're doing that, then why did you buy more expensive gear to start with?  It's a losing proposition.  Don't do it.

[ProSoundWeb Community]