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Author Topic: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits  (Read 59497 times)

claude cascioli

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low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« on: May 19, 2014, 10:41:14 PM »

i have been in the businuess since 1974. and i am in the new york metro area and i am fed up with these low ballers that have one system no insurance just a system that the idiot sends out for 300.00 a nite and makes it hard for real companies to make a profit let alone get jobs. its time that sound companies must meet a criteria to even book any gig. and to have the knowlage to know what there doing. i have a big investment and now i want to upgrade but barely make enough to keep going. my businuess has dropped by 50% since 2009 and its beacause of these jerks that give it away we also need to educate the public realize djs are not qualified not sound companys. and we also need to push the ftc to enforce equipment ratings such as the powerd speaker that puts out a 1000.00 for 299.00 and those who think there getting deals there not. most dealers will meet these prices. recently i sold some gear to a local school and beat an online dealer. and made a nice profit
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Kyle Van Sandt

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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2014, 10:57:44 PM »

Yup, it sucks.  It is capitalism though.  I don't think the FTC should be involved though... it has nothing to do with trade.  In 2009, the northeast was hit pretty hard by the recession.  People cut corners.  If they had an event, they did it as cheaply as possible.  My venue along with many others lost a lot of business.  It is what it is.  Nothing you can do to stop it besides present the best product you can to your clients.  We have both types of shops in my area.  Some clients go with the high cost one, get D&B rigs with great techs.  The other ones go with the cheap company and get whatever they can throw together in the shop that day.  Some clients learn... some don't care. 

It is up to you to educate your clients why your services cost more.  It is not an easy business to be in... and things are just getting cheaper.  You can put together a nice portable club rig these days for 30k.  That used to cost double that.  The barrier to entry is much lower and many more people want to play. 

We are actually pretty safe in our industry.  Be glad your not a professional photographer, own a recording studio, or god forbid a graphic artist.   
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Kyle Van Sandt
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chuck clark

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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2014, 11:25:38 PM »

In spite of your apparent and mildly disturbing lack of spellcheck I have to agree. The slow rise of DJ's concurrent with less & less gigs requiring a band has reached a tipping point and now seems to be the way of the future.
If your superior equipment, knowledge and talent and dependability and professionalism aren't worth more than $300 a night then you should either adjust your quality of goods and services downward to compete or only accept higher paying jobs that can appreciate and afford to pay the difference. Like many in this business right now, we are faced w/ some tough decisions.
These days anything less than $500/night gets you what I call PA on a stick. The simple fact of the matter is that $300/night is entry level price and that's exactly the equipment that price should get them. Everyone wants a Cadillac for a Volkswagen price but why should you be the fool that delivers it? It's hard to "just say No" but sometimes that's what you gotta do. A lot of weekend soundguys will quit when the novelty wears off and they realize how much work and expenses are involved.  Best of luck!
Chuck
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Brian Jojade

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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2014, 11:43:06 PM »

i have been in the businuess since 1974. and i am in the new york metro area and i am fed up with these low ballers that have one system no insurance just a system that the idiot sends out for 300.00 a nite and makes it hard for real companies to make a profit let alone get jobs.

most dealers will meet these prices. recently i sold some gear to a local school and beat an online dealer. and made a nice profit

Do you notice the hypocrisy of the first and last sentences of the post?  First you complain about others that are doing things cheaper, and then you brag about doing the same thing to an established store.  What's the difference?
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Brian Jojade

Tim McCulloch

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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2014, 11:47:58 PM »

i have been in the businuess since 1974. and i am in the new york metro area and i am fed up with these low ballers that have one system no insurance just a system that the idiot sends out for 300.00 a nite and makes it hard for real companies to make a profit let alone get jobs. its time that sound companies must meet a criteria to even book any gig. and to have the knowlage to know what there doing. i have a big investment and now i want to upgrade but barely make enough to keep going. my businuess has dropped by 50% since 2009 and its beacause of these jerks that give it away we also need to educate the public realize djs are not qualified not sound companys. and we also need to push the ftc to enforce equipment ratings such as the powerd speaker that puts out a 1000.00 for 299.00 and those who think there getting deals there not. most dealers will meet these prices. recently i sold some gear to a local school and beat an online dealer. and made a nice profit

I'm sympathetic, Claude, but there ain't much you can do when services become "Wal-Marted".  Customer shops for lowest price, end of story.

While it would be nice if there were some kind of "seal of approval", our American history suggests that our lawmakers aren't terribly interested in creating occupational or professional licensing for what we do.  We're not pharmacists or realtors or plumbers or nurses or, or or....  but bad audio hasn't killed anyone, yet.  Shady business practices have their own repercussions, but lots of slimy operators get by for far too long.

I wish there were an answer.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2014, 02:57:41 AM »

We are actually pretty safe in our industry.  Be glad your not a professional photographer...

Indeed.  Have a look at some of the photography forums.  Half the posts are from wedding photographers moaning about people undercutting them.

It's just business though.  Any time that something which used to require the services of a specialist becomes available to the masses, this will happen.


Steve.
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Jim McKeveny

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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2014, 07:43:03 AM »

In NYC Metro area there is lots of gear fighting for fewer musical events.

On top of this, deeper-pocket players recognized that much of their "sound" costs were really transportation & logistics - so they installed their own rigs.

What is left are street fairs and one-offs with sketchy promoters at dicey locations.
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Bill Schnake

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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2014, 08:32:26 AM »

i am in the new york metro area and i am fed up with these low ballers that have one system no insurance just a system that the idiot sends out for 300.00 a nite and makes it hard for real companies to make a profit let alone get jobs.

I get this, we have the same thing in the mid-west where I live.  We have 'sound companies' who do bar jobs for $200 - $300 regardless of the number of hours.

Quote
i have a big investment and now i want to upgrade but barely make enough to keep going. my businuess has dropped by 50% since 2009 and its beacause of these jerks that give it away

This is where you and I disagree and have had different results.  During the height of the recession I saw several of the companies that worked space we did fail.  Not just because of competition, but because of poor business practices.  I am not saying that is the case with you company. We have managed to weather the storm and now are up 37% above where we were in 2009. 

I get calls all of the time from bands and functions that want to have us do sound for $300; 98% of them we turn down.  Once in a great while, like last Thursday, we will do the job. Last Thursday we did because the singer I have known each other for 10 years and we click.  It was also a 3 job day, conference for the State of Illinois, School Musical and the band.  So between the 3 jobs that day we did alright.;)  Generally on bar shows, we just say that is not what our focus is and Thank You for asking.  Would you like us to refer you to someone else?  Could we work more if we did them...yes.  However, I would rather work less and be paid more.  It's a choice that we made and we are sticking to.  I currently have four employees besides myself that I have to provide a salary to.

It seems like if your focus is that you want to provide sound for bars.  If that is true, then you have to work at a rate that the market in your area is willing to pay or you have to find a way to differentiate your services from someone who is not as qualified.

Bill 8)
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Bill Schnake

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Robert Weston

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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2014, 09:15:44 AM »

i have been in the businuess since 1974. and i am in the new york metro area and i am fed up with these low ballers that have one system no insurance just a system that the idiot sends out for 300.00 a nite and makes it hard for real companies to make a profit let alone get jobs. its time that sound companies must meet a criteria to even book any gig. and to have the knowlage to know what there doing. i have a big investment and now i want to upgrade but barely make enough to keep going. my businuess has dropped by 50% since 2009 and its beacause of these jerks that give it away we also need to educate the public realize djs are not qualified not sound companys. and we also need to push the ftc to enforce equipment ratings such as the powerd speaker that puts out a 1000.00 for 299.00 and those who think there getting deals there not. most dealers will meet these prices. recently i sold some gear to a local school and beat an online dealer. and made a nice profit

When the focus of your work (whatever that may be) is money, then that's what it all becomes about... money.  Are you more interested in making money, or running sound because you enjoy it.

Money/profits are important, but if that is the focus of your work, you are going to take a beating from a lot of people who do this kind of work because they enjoy it more than making money.  Either accept it and manage it and (emotionally) move on, or change to another line of work where you can make more money.

I think a lot of people on this forum have a greater passion for sound, and have experienced the same "undercutting" issues.  Perhaps to "fight the undercutting" many of us have added/changed/modified/improved our services to accommodate a wider audience, which usually equates to more money.

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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2014, 09:18:33 AM »

In NYC Metro area there is lots of gear fighting for fewer musical events.

On top of this, deeper-pocket players recognized that much of their "sound" costs were really transportation & logistics - so they installed their own rigs.

What is left are street fairs and one-offs with sketchy promoters at dicey locations.

I have seen the same thing happen to a variety of professions over the past 50 years.  I grew up on a family farm...gone.  Small business...wiped out by corporation.  Musician...wannabe's playing for (coffee) beans/exposure.
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Re: low balling a weekend worriors that have ruined profits
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2014, 09:18:33 AM »


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