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Author Topic: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through  (Read 2180 times)

Gary Miller

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2014, 12:27:13 pm »

Skip the loop through, just build extension cords with a duplex box on the end.  It'll work a lot better, be more flexible, and you can more easily address the voltage drop issue by using higher gauge cable.  Make a 50' cable (or whatever length makes you happy) using 12ga soow - or 10ga if you want to protect against voltage drop.  Put a duplex box on the end of it and then plug the speaker into one outlet and the next cord into the other.
I like this idea too. Kinda like a stage stringer. Definitely brings flexibility into the setup!
Typically, the AC loop-through is used for something like a pair of wedges.

That being said, amps and speakers draw surprisingly little current from the grid.  The duty cycle of musical content is ridiculously forgiving compared to that of AC sine wave power.

A good rule of thumb is to take the continuous power rating of the amp in question and divide that number by four.  This will give a rough approximation of what the amp will draw from the grid at full tilt.  In other words, a 1000w amp will only draw a little over 2 amps in the US and a little over 1 in Europe at full power!
So are you saying that I should be fine using the powercon loop through on the cabinets to string 4 boxes together across a 300' front with little or no voltage drop issues that the others are mentioning?
It might be a bit bass ackward to put the power scheme too high up on the selection criteria list.   Spend your energy determining which box best meets your need for power, sound quality, scalability, deployment method, and price. Buy the speaker that best balances those requirements and build whatever cables fit it


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James, that is all very good advice but I'm fairly confident that any of these boxes that employs near a 1000w amplifier in a 4 box line in this configuration should meet all those needs as I will mostly be using the system for playback, DJ type stuff, and a single mic for announcements and show credits. The only other food for thought would in the deployment criteria. It would help to have a speaker system that can hold up to weather. Obviously, we can't shoot in an outright down pour but we have done shows in a light drizzle. Also, a lot of times when that sun sets in many of these locations it gets very wet due to condensation...and there is the fall out issues albeit not a huge concern
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2014, 07:04:15 pm »

I'd keep the power split outside the box.  Attach a quad box to the stand and daisy chain from there.  In the event that you have to swap a speaker, this would mean that there's no need to drop power on the next speakers down the line.

A 300' run at 120v is getting pretty long.  While the average draw of speaker power is pretty low, it will pull much higher peaks as needed.  This won't blow a breaker, but the voltage sag that you get on a long run gets amplified.  The result is the amp being starved for power which can cause the sound to become thin or distorted, depending on the speaker.  Amps with bigger reserve caps handle this situation better than those without.

A good test is to attach a lamp at the far end of the run and turn it up.  If the light dim with the beat of the music, you've got enough of a problem that you should be running heavier cable.
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Brian Jojade

Ray Aberle

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2014, 12:41:10 am »

A good test is to attach a lamp at the far end of the run and turn it up.  If the light dim with the beat of the music, you've got enough of a problem that you should be running heavier cable.

Good test plan. Fortunately, that's also something you can do at home/at the office/at the warehouse *before* going to the gig. So, if a heavier cable (or a different plan altogether) is warranted, you can work that out before the gig!
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Chris Eddison

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2014, 06:37:44 am »

Whilst I also agree that the place for an AC split is outside the cabinet, i'll also say that the RCF TT22-A's have a powercon in and out, as do the TT25-A's. Heard some very good reports about them, and am currently looking at buying a pair myself. Yet to listen though.

If you were here in the UK I'd suggest you make up AC leads for your speakers using 16A T-line connectors like these; http://www.directcablesystems.com/site/product_details.php?section_id=8&sub_section_id=516&category_id=55
Though I've got to say I'm not very familiar with mains distribution over your side of the Atlantic so I'm not sure if they'd be of any use at all.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2014, 07:24:01 am »

Whilst I also agree that the place for an AC split is outside the cabinet, i'll also say that the RCF TT22-A's have a powercon in and out, as do the TT25-A's. Heard some very good reports about them, and am currently looking at buying a pair myself. Yet to listen though.

If you were here in the UK I'd suggest you make up AC leads for your speakers using 16A T-line connectors like these; http://www.directcablesystems.com/site/product_details.php?section_id=8&sub_section_id=516&category_id=55
Though I've got to say I'm not very familiar with mains distribution over your side of the Atlantic so I'm not sure if they'd be of any use at all.
That exists in US distribution as well: http://www.signalandpower.com/USA-3-Prong-Power-Cords/YL-915-USA/

They tend to be a little fragile and may get loose after a few uses, but they do work.
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Jonathan Kok

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2014, 11:00:32 am »

Skip the loop through, just build extension cords with a duplex box on the end.  It'll work a lot better, be more flexible, and you can more easily address the voltage drop issue by using higher gauge cable.  Make a 50' cable (or whatever length makes you happy) using 12ga soow - or 10ga if you want to protect against voltage drop.  Put a duplex box on the end of it and then plug the speaker into one outlet and the next cord into the other.
Yep. Alternatively, build powercon-->U-ground female cables. That will allow you to loop-through power, but not eat up valuable copper to dedicated powercon extensions.
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John Moore

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2014, 04:00:33 pm »

Most of the RCF NX, 4PRO, TT series and dB Technologies D series boxes have power-con loop through...take a look at the RCF NXL24A, and also the D12 and D15 boxes from db Technologies...great performers and coupled with subs, awesome...we have done some fairly good size concert in the park events with 2 of the D12 per side and subs.
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http://www.trinityprosound.com 209-832-8023
DEALER:Dealer for Yorkville, EV, QSC, RCF, Danley Sound Labs, VTC, Allen & Heath, Ashly, Denon,  Audix, One Systems, Beyerdynamic, Presonus, K&M, Ultimate,  Trusst, Road Ready, Gator, Radial Engineering, Turbosound, dB Technologies, RCF, American Audio,  Rapco, CBI Cables, ADJ, Chauvet, Blizzard, Furman, Shure, Tascam, Elite Screens,  BenQ, Midas, Digico,  and many many more...

Gary Miller

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2014, 05:25:12 pm »

Most of the RCF NX, 4PRO, TT series and dB Technologies D series boxes have power-con loop through...take a look at the RCF NXL24A, and also the D12 and D15 boxes from db Technologies...great performers and coupled with subs, awesome...we have done some fairly good size concert in the park events with 2 of the D12 per side and subs.
Are the D12 boxes able to be mounted on stands? I can't see anywhere in the specs or brochures where it has this information.

G
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John Moore

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2014, 09:09:24 pm »

Are the D12 boxes able to be mounted on stands? I can't see anywhere in the specs or brochures where it has this information.

G

yes, pole socket on bottom


Selfpowered 2-way loudspeaker system, 1x12" RCF Neo
Woofer with 3" voice coil, 1x1,4" neodymium HF-driver with
2,5" voice coil, rotatable aluminium horn 60°x40, integrated
digipro™ Class-D power amp with 500+250W/RMS and 1000W
PFC switch mode supply, integrated audio controller for active
splitting (1,3KHz), phase- and time alignment , 2 EQ presets
(FOH/Monitor) multipurpose housing with 3 integrated
handles, 6 x aeroquip-rails, 4 x M10, 4 x quick release, pole
mount socket, 45° angle for monitor applications, PowerCon
mains input with link-out, frequency response (+-10dB) 55Hz-
20KHz, SPL max. 131dB, dimensions: 14.5" x 15.5" x 24.25",
weight: 48 lbs
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 09:12:22 pm by John Moore »
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http://www.trinityprosound.com 209-832-8023
DEALER:Dealer for Yorkville, EV, QSC, RCF, Danley Sound Labs, VTC, Allen & Heath, Ashly, Denon,  Audix, One Systems, Beyerdynamic, Presonus, K&M, Ultimate,  Trusst, Road Ready, Gator, Radial Engineering, Turbosound, dB Technologies, RCF, American Audio,  Rapco, CBI Cables, ADJ, Chauvet, Blizzard, Furman, Shure, Tascam, Elite Screens,  BenQ, Midas, Digico,  and many many more...

Gary Miller

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Re: Powered Speakers on a stick with A/C loop through
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2014, 02:10:15 pm »

yes, pole socket on bottom

Are these cabinets able to be wired to a standard 110 volt Edison plug?

G
Selfpowered 2-way loudspeaker system, 1x12" RCF Neo
Woofer with 3" voice coil, 1x1,4" neodymium HF-driver with
2,5" voice coil, rotatable aluminium horn 60°x40, integrated
digipro™ Class-D power amp with 500+250W/RMS and 1000W
PFC switch mode supply, integrated audio controller for active
splitting (1,3KHz), phase- and time alignment , 2 EQ presets
(FOH/Monitor) multipurpose housing with 3 integrated
handles, 6 x aeroquip-rails, 4 x M10, 4 x quick release, pole
mount socket, 45° angle for monitor applications, PowerCon
mains input with link-out, frequency response (+-10dB) 55Hz-
20KHz, SPL max. 131dB, dimensions: 14.5" x 15.5" x 24.25",
weight: 48 lbs
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