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Author Topic: Questions about Nexo?  (Read 8223 times)

kel mcguire

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Questions about Nexo?
« on: May 12, 2014, 12:55:04 PM »

particularly the Nexo Ps10. ..used market

I looked up the specs, tried to find some used prices. now i have a few questions:

When did they come out? I see a version 2 now

opinions on them

Do you need the controller, is that for use with subs & tops biamped or can you simply run them full range and achieve good results?

what would be a fair price for 4 of them, used with the controller racks?

Do they array nicely? I see the asymetrical horn lens, and that looks interesting(the narrow over wide) but perhaps not side by side?

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kel mcguire

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 05:43:17 PM »

Nexo not very popular here? anyone?
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Doug Fowler

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 05:46:12 PM »

particularly the Nexo Ps10. ..used market

I looked up the specs, tried to find some used prices. now i have a few questions:

When did they come out? I see a version 2 now

opinions on them

Do you need the controller, is that for use with subs & tops biamped or can you simply run them full range and achieve good results?

what would be a fair price for 4 of them, used with the controller racks?

Do they array nicely? I see the asymetrical horn lens, and that looks interesting(the narrow over wide) but perhaps not side by side?

You NEED the controller.  Don't even think about using them otherwise.

PS series have been around for maybe 15 years or so.  Series 2 is a nice improvement sonically.

They don't array at all.  It's a standalone solution.

Don't know about prices.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 05:48:13 PM »

Nexo not very popular here? anyone?

Patience.  Most of the Nexo owners are working...

Yes, you need a genuine Nexo controller or Yamaha's NX series amps.  Without those its not a Nexo SYSTEM.
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kel mcguire

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 05:56:16 PM »

Patience.  Most of the Nexo owners are working...

Yes, you need a genuine Nexo controller or Yamaha's NX series amps.  Without those its not a Nexo SYSTEM.

thanks. So, even without subs, the processor has what the speakers need to really shine full range?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 05:59:48 PM by kel mcguire »
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 06:18:11 PM »

thanks. So, even without subs, the processor has what the speakers need to really shine full range?

With the understanding that it's a 10" woofer. It's not going to fill a dance club, but it's the best balanced of the PS line sonically.

Mac
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kel mcguire

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 06:24:23 PM »

With the understanding that it's a 10" woofer. It's not going to fill a dance club, but it's the best balanced of the PS line sonically.

Mac

thanks Mac. is $5k for 5 cabs a fair price for the PS10?

To get an idea of their performance, how do they compare to my srx712? EVQRx112

on monitor duty, is the asymetrical HF difficult to cope with?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 07:37:31 PM by kel mcguire »
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chuck clark

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 06:58:31 PM »


on monitor duty, is the asymetrical HF difficult to cope with?

Nah, I've never used PS 10's but the Community Monitor uses an asymetrical horn with world class results. The idea is that when the performer is further away the dispersion is narrower and when the performer comes up close over the top of the monitor it's dispersion is wider thus achieving a more even energy response when moving from one position to the other.
You might need to rotate the horns in the Nexos to achieve that. Not sure that's an option-sorry not more familiar w/ Nexo. Best of luck!
Chuck
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Sean Hayes

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 09:33:55 PM »

particularly the Nexo Ps10. ..used market

I looked up the specs, tried to find some used prices. now i have a few questions:

When did they come out? I see a version 2 now

opinions on them

Do you need the controller, is that for use with subs & tops biamped or can you simply run them full range and achieve good results?

what would be a fair price for 4 of them, used with the controller racks?

Do they array nicely? I see the asymetrical horn lens, and that looks interesting(the narrow over wide) but perhaps not side by side?

A couple of thoughts here...

I use the ps10 fairly often for corporate work so I cannot really comment on using these in a high output setting...

Yes, you need the controller.

Please note that the ps10 is wired on circuit 2+- on an nl4. So you need to use either 4 conductor or turnarounds. Or do like I do, run one nl4 to a pair, then do a circuit swap to another pair. (Yamaha wants you to put subs on circuit 1)

I doubt any good results arraying them.

Rigging these is easy, but limited.

I cannot comment on the price, my company purchased these before I joined the crew.

Sean
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Bob Main

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 04:00:46 AM »

particularly the Nexo Ps10. ..used market

I looked up the specs, tried to find some used prices. now i have a few questions:

When did they come out? I see a version 2 now

opinions on them

Do you need the controller, is that for use with subs & tops biamped or can you simply run them full range and achieve good results?

what would be a fair price for 4 of them, used with the controller racks?

Do they array nicely? I see the asymetrical horn lens, and that looks interesting(the narrow over wide) but perhaps not side by side?

Have used the Nexo PS10's almost exclusively for about 10 years now (mainly musical theatre with the occasional live band set-up) and found them to be excellent.  They can produce a quite amazing volume level - on a number of occasions I have seen clients with wistful looks on their faces as they are unloaded from their flight cases only to see them smiling shortly thereafter when they are powered up and running.  Their sound level output is quite astonishing considering the physical size of the boxes and indeed they actually (to my ear) sound better when being pushed - no distortion, just clean, balanced audio.    Having said that, these results are only achievable provided you use the boxes with the appropriate controller and/or amp combination.  (I personally use them with the Nexo branded, but Camco built, combined controller/amp).  As has been previously said DO NOT try and use them without the approved Nexo/Yamaha control system as the results will be really disappointing!

Provided you are using the approved controller set-up then the boxes can be run full range although, as would be expected, the bottom end will not give you chest-thumping levels.  They are designed to be used with the Nexo LS500 subs and these certainly give a nicely balanced sub output although I would describe it as more "refined" than "powerful".

The presence of the rotatable asymmetrical horn is one of the primary reasons that I invested in the PS10's.  They can be easily changed to work as either F.O.H. speakers or wedge monitors.  The horns have 4 Torx headed screws that you remove, rotate the horn as required, then replace the screws.  Really simple - I can do 4 boxes in under 5 minutes!  The coverage pattern that the horn provides (100 degrees horizontal below the centre line to 55 degrees above the centre line) means that when being used as a F.O.H. speaker system the sound pressure level at the back of the hall is almost (but not exactly obviously) as that at the front.  No more toasting those seated in the front rows so that people at the back can hear!  The fact that the horn can be deployed in a full 360 degree configuration also helps on those occasions when you need to cope with some difficult coverage patterns.  The asymmetrical horn also comes into its own when you want to deploy the boxes on monitor duty and as has already been explained by rotating the horn to the appropriate position you can ensure an even pattern coverage on stage.

The down side of the horn dispersion pattern does mean that they aren't designed to be arrayed. That said, never say never!  I have on more than one occasion used them in a side by side arrangement where I'm trying to cover a very wide horizontal area and although the results aren't as good as when being used in a 1 per side system, the results are nevertheless more than acceptable.  (Never had complaints from any audiences or clients where I've used them arrayed).

As far as costs are concerned, I did a quick check of the invoices from 2004 and (using todays exchange rate of $1.68 = £1) each box cost the equivalent of $1260.  That works out at $6300 for 5 boxes at 2004 prices.  Depending on age and condition, you might consider that $5000 for 5 second-hand boxes is a bit steep but if the price includes the correct controller then I would say it's not too far off the mark.

Hope this helps point you in the right direction.  If you have any other questions about the boxes feel free to fire away.
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kel mcguire

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 12:26:03 PM »

Thanks Bob! excellent information. much appreciated
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Matt Vivlamore

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 03:27:33 PM »

I was looking at buying a PS15-R2, LS18 & NXAMP4x4... but I went a different route and picked up the Fulcrum's.

I've worked with Nexo on a few events; my couple years I had an GeoS8 rig with the TD-Controller/DSP & QSC PL380s on everything and I thought the limiters would engage rather quickly.  The last few years, they switched to the NXAMP4x4 amps and they system came alive and became a whole different animal.
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kel mcguire

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2014, 06:28:54 PM »

Have used the Nexo PS10's almost exclusively for about 10 years now (mainly musical theatre with the occasional live band set-up) and found them to be excellent.   Having said that, these results are only achievable provided you use the boxes with the appropriate controller and/or amp combination.  (I personally use them with the Nexo branded, but Camco built, combined controller/amp).  As has been previously said DO NOT try and use them without the approved Nexo/Yamaha control system as the results will be really disappointing!



Bob, if you had the Ps10 processors, can you use any power amps at that point?  I understand the mains signals go into the processor and a speaker out as well...but the speaker does not "thru" on the processor
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Bob Main

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2014, 04:18:34 AM »

Bob, if you had the Ps10 processors, can you use any power amps at that point?  I understand the mains signals go into the processor and a speaker out as well...but the speaker does not "thru" on the processor

Hi Kel

As I said in my earlier reply, I currently use the combined PS10 controller/amp built by Camco for Nexo and it makes life really simple.  Plug the main L and R output from the desk into their respective inputs on the controller/amp and take 4-core cable with NL4 connectors from the L and R output into the LS500 sub and then thru to the PS10 tops.  Switch on and sit back!  The combined controller/amp does all the necessary processing without any involvement from me! 

Here [url]http://nexo-sa.com/attachments/products/46/ps-series-manual.pdf/url]is a link to the relevant documentation from Nexo about the original PS10 series - it's very comprehensive and covers both the use of stand alone control units and also the combined controller/amp - which, unfortunately never seemed to make it to the US market (which I presume is where you are based).  As you will see from the documentation, Nexo's preference is for the use of higher end amps (their documentation for the PS10R2 series suggests 500 to 1250 watts into 8 ohms).  Pages 18 to 23 of the document relates specifically to deployment of the PS10 stand alone controller and it seems fairly simple.  Outputs from the desk go into the main L and R XLR inputs on the back, then from the main L and R XLR outs to your L and R amp inputs.  There is a third XLR output on the controller which provides a summed mono signal and this gets connected to the input of your sub amp (if you are running one that is).  The only other connection you need, AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE, is the sense lines connected to the output channels of the amplifier driving one cabinet of each of the channels in use.  In terms of amps being used, I think it comes down to a bit of a personal choice (given what I've already said about the need to look towards higher spec'd range) but I know that Camco have had a long-term and very productive relationship with Nexo so that might be a good starting point.

Here [url]http://www.fuzion.co.uk/Support/Tech_Articles/NexoTDControllers.aspx?Title=Nexo%20TD%20Controllers/url]is also a very good tech article about why it is essential to use the proper controller set-up with these boxes.  It was written by the company who distributed the Nexo range here in the U.K.  They appear to have written it on the back of similar questions to those raised by yourself.  Well worth a read and will hopefully clarify matters for you.

Regards.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2014, 06:25:57 AM »

Bob, if you had the Ps10 processors, can you use any power amps at that point?  I understand the mains signals go into the processor and a speaker out as well...but the speaker does not "thru" on the processor

Bob Main's comments are spot on, and I will add that you cannot use amplifiers with processing latency.  No I-Tech, etc.  The latency messes with the Nexo controller's protection (excursion limiting, peak voltage limiters, etc).

Also don't overlook the sensing connections; the controller must have these connected or it will not work correctly.

Using Yamaha's NX series amps is your best bet, particularly if you don't already have the controller/processor.  If you're using the PS10s as monitors, you'll need 1 controller channel per mix, so you'll need to consider that as well.
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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2014, 09:10:02 AM »

from my understanding pretty much "any" amp will work.  The amp/power going into the processer is there to monitor the power levels going into the speaker, when you are trying to overdrive the system, it'll reduce the signal (XLR) going into the amp.  Yorkville uses this concept on their TX processors.

Amps  I've worked with driving Nexo:
Lab Gruppen FP/FP+
QSC PL
Camco
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2014, 12:54:52 PM »

from my understanding pretty much "any" amp will work.  The amp/power going into the processer is there to monitor the power levels going into the speaker, when you are trying to overdrive the system, it'll reduce the signal (XLR) going into the amp.  Yorkville uses this concept on their TX processors.

Amps  I've worked with driving Nexo:
Lab Gruppen FP/FP+
QSC PL
Camco

When the processor is looking at the signal for protection and "look ahead" functions, any latency will throw it off, and the typical >1.2ms latency of the ITech disqualifies it and any other amp that doesn't have "speed of electricity" through-put. 

Our Nexo tech contacts specifically gave us this info.  RMX whatever, no problem.  Original MacroTech, no problem.  ITech, problem.

The Nexo racks used Camco until Yamaha took over distribution, and I rather liked the Geo8 rigs with them.  We had a demo rig with Ladysmith Black Mambazo and the audio was stunningly neutral.  It was like moving the 800 folks in the audience to the front row.  I wish I could remember the mixerperson's name, he did a great job.  He delayed the PA back to the vocal mic line (hey, its a bunch of guys singing and their acoustic contribution has to be accounted for) to bring the image together.

Would we have had that result without the Nexo processing?  Absolutely not.  Would we have had that result with messed up sensing due to latency?  I can't guarantee "no", but I can guarantee it can sound like that if the *system* is deployed with the necessary processors, vetted amps, and proper alignment.

Sorry to keep harping on this, but it IS important.  Without the right amps and processing, Nexo or Meyer or, or, or... are just speakers in a plywood or plastic box, not a *system*.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 11:38:24 PM by Tim McCulloch »
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kel mcguire

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2014, 02:14:12 PM »

When the processor is looking at the signal for protection and "look ahead" functions, any latency will throw it off, and the typical >1.2ms latency of the ITech disqualifies it and any other amp that doesn't have "speed of electricity" through-put. 

Our Nexo tech contacts specifically gave us this info.  RMX whatever, no problem.  Original MacroTech, no problem.  ITech, problem.

The Nexo racks used Camco until Yamaha took over distribution, and I rather liked the Geo8 rigs with them.  We had a demo rig with Ladysmith Black Mambazo and the audio was stunningly neutral.  It was like moving the 800 folks in the audience to the front row.  I wish I could remember the mixerperson's name, he did a great job.  He delayed the PA back to the vocal mic line (hey, its a bunch of guys singing and their acoustic contribution has to be accounted for) to bring the image together.

Would we have had that result without the Nexo processing?  Absolutely.  Would we have had that result with messed up sensing due to latency?  I can't guarantee "no", but I can guarantee it can sound like that if the *system* is deployed with the necessary processors, vetted amps, and proper alignment.

Sorry to keep harping on this, but it IS important.  Without the right amps and processing, Nexo or Meyer or, or, or... are just speakers in a plywood or plastic box, not a *system*.

So, is it safe to say the processor is not doing EQ but system limiting? Or are there loudness compensations (active fletcher munson curves if you will) going on as well? No dsp amps with latency then. Check.

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John Penkala

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2014, 04:28:42 PM »

When the processor is looking at the signal for protection and "look ahead" functions, any latency will throw it off, and the typical >1.2ms latency of the ITech disqualifies it and any other amp that doesn't have "speed of electricity" through-put. 

Our Nexo tech contacts specifically gave us this info.  RMX whatever, no problem.  Original MacroTech, no problem.  ITech, problem.

The Nexo racks used Camco until Yamaha took over distribution, and I rather liked the Geo8 rigs with them.  We had a demo rig with Ladysmith Black Mambazo and the audio was stunningly neutral.  It was like moving the 800 folks in the audience to the front row.  I wish I could remember the mixerperson's name, he did a great job.  He delayed the PA back to the vocal mic line (hey, its a bunch of guys singing and their acoustic contribution has to be accounted for) to bring the image together.

Would we have had that result without the Nexo processing?  Absolutely.  Would we have had that result with messed up sensing due to latency?  I can't guarantee "no", but I can guarantee it can sound like that if the *system* is deployed with the necessary processors, vetted amps, and proper alignment.

Sorry to keep harping on this, but it IS important.  Without the right amps and processing, Nexo or Meyer or, or, or... are just speakers in a plywood or plastic box, not a *system*.


+1
 
I have used iTech's with S8's and can tell you first hand that Tim is correct. The difference is most noticeable when approaching the system's limits or on transients. At low volumes the performance is still very good.  However, the difference was very noticeable when changing sub amps from iTech's to MacroTech i's running at any volume.

-JP
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Kevin McDonough

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2014, 05:19:30 PM »

hey

While I haven't used PS10's specifically, I have used version 1 PS15's and 8's extensively and can echo what everyone says.

Controllers, or controller/amps are a must, they provide high pass, EQ (some of which is dynamic, i.e. changes as you push the boxes) and limiting and the speakers really sound pretty rubbish without it. The sense lines need to be connected as said, so they can measure whats happening and process appropriately. With it they are very good sounding boxes and very rentable and recognised across industry sectors.

The nexo NXAMP's are ideal if you can get them as you don't have to worry about the processor and sense lines etc, it all happens in the box and they do sound very good, usually better than running a processor through a separate amp. And ideal if you want to use them as wedges on occasion, as one amp provides 4 channels of processing as well as 4 channels of amp, saving you a lot of rack space and complications.

The matching LS series subs are usable and sound OK, but don't really keep up with the tops for high volume live music.

k


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kel mcguire

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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2014, 06:29:08 PM »

Hi Kel


Here [url]http://nexo-sa.com/attachments/products/46/ps-series-manual.pdf/url]is a link to the relevant documentation from Nexo about the original PS10 series - it's very comprehensive and covers both the use of stand alone control units and also the combined controller/amp - which, unfortunately never seemed to make it to the US market (which I presume is where you are based).  As you will see from the documentation, Nexo's preference is for the use of higher end amps (their documentation for the PS10R2 series suggests 500 to 1250 watts into 8 ohms).  Pages 18 to 23 of the document relates specifically to deployment of the PS10 stand alone controller and it seems fairly simple.  Outputs from the desk go into the main L and R XLR inputs on the back, then from the main L and R XLR outs to your L and R amp inputs.  There is a third XLR output on the controller which provides a summed mono signal and this gets connected to the input of your sub amp (if you are running one that is).  The only other connection you need, AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE, is the sense lines connected to the output channels of the amplifier driving one cabinet of each of the channels in use.  In terms of amps being used, I think it comes down to a bit of a personal choice (given what I've already said about the need to look towards higher spec'd range) but I know that Camco have had a long-term and very productive relationship with Nexo so that might be a good starting point.

Here [url]http://www.fuzion.co.uk/Support/Tech_Articles/NexoTDControllers.aspx?Title=Nexo%20TD%20Controllers/url]is also a very good tech article about why it is essential to use the proper controller set-up with these boxes.  It was written by the company who distributed the Nexo range here in the U.K.  They appear to have written it on the back of similar questions to those raised by yourself.  Well worth a read and will hopefully clarify matters for you.

Regards.

I read both of those links. thanks!!
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Re: Questions about Nexo?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2014, 06:29:08 PM »


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