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Author Topic: Need advise for audio installation for a cafe. (groundplan attached)  (Read 4385 times)

David Wu

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Hi guys,
I just registered this forum because I need your professional advises.

My brother will open a coffee shop soon and I'm helping him out with audio installation.

I do have a budget concern so I will buy used gears and need advise on gear selection and speaker placements. (Brand and model preferred). I also have the groundplan attached.

Questions:

1.   Sound source (ipod or PC) -->   ?   --> speakers and a subwoofer
   
      I need something like a A/V receiver to distribute the signal to the speakers but I don't know what to buy.
     
2.   As you see in the ground plan, I plan to install 4 infinity hts satellite and a hts-10 subwoofer. I attached the link to the spec but I couldn't find the dispersion and coverage sheet. These are usually used for home theater, will they get the job done? If not, any better suggestion?




« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 09:55:22 PM by David Wu »
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Scott Hibbard

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David,

I don't see dispersion ratings on the speakers you have listed (sorry if I overlooked it?).  Anyway I would go with quality ceiling speakers or pendant speakers (depending on the ceiling/architecture) with wide dispersion (120+ degrees) so you have adequate overlap/coverage. Also do yourself a favor and use a commercial/professional mixer/amp. You can also use wall mounted volume controller and put all the equipment out of sight. You might also consider a multi-zone amp, and put speakers in the main room, VIP room, bar areas and even the bathrooms.

I would not use "home theater" anything.  Home theater receivers are not designed to run what will presumably be 60+ hours per week.  I had a client do that in his office, and the receiver literally caught on fire and melted down.  Not an impedance issue, it just was not capable of cooling itself while running all-day, every day. 

Good luck,
ScottH
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Never mind the nice music.  Do whatever it takes to silence the eff*** espresso machine.  I hate the continuous blaests of steam powered white noise.

rant over
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Ivan Beaver

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1: It does not good to suggest types of used gear-if you cannot find it used.

2:  How loud do you want it to be?  Background music or foreground?

3: How are you planning on mounting the speakers do they don't fall and kill somebody?

4: A typical HT receiver is not designed to be run all day-everyday.  They can easily overheat.  There is a reason real gear costs more money.

5: The number of speakers you have listed will put to much of a load on the AV receiver (to low of an impedance) which will quicken its death.

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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

David Wu

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Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it.

I didn't intend to use home theater receivers in this application. What I meant was the "speakers" I intend to use(which are the infinity hts satellite and hts-10 sub )  are considered as home theater speakers.

However, my goal isn't for the perfect detailed sound. I just need some nice background music which can cover the noises those espresso machines could make.

These satellite will be mounted high to the ceiling aiming down. Because I couldn't find any information on their dispersion or coverage, I don't know how many I need and where to place them in order to get the best result.

The other question is the mixer/amplifier. I don't know what to look for. Someone told me the TOA mixer/amp are for this kind of application so I did a little research on ebay and found things like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOA-ELECTRONICS-A712-700-Series-Integrated-Mixer-Amplifiers-/291132910097?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item43c8dfaa11.

However, it doesn't look right to me because it has so many "inputs" knobs but for my application I need many"outputs" instead so I can control each speaker?

Again, guys I appreciate all your responses. Please give me some professional advise to sort this out.
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Ivan Beaver

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Hi everyone, thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate it.

I didn't intend to use home theater receivers in this application. What I meant was the "speakers" I intend to use(which are the infinity hts satellite and hts-10 sub )  are considered as home theater speakers.

However, my goal isn't for the perfect detailed sound. I just need some nice background music which can cover the noises those espresso machines could make.

These satellite will be mounted high to the ceiling aiming down. Because I couldn't find any information on their dispersion or coverage, I don't know how many I need and where to place them in order to get the best result.

The other question is the mixer/amplifier. I don't know what to look for. Someone told me the TOA mixer/amp are for this kind of application so I did a little research on ebay and found things like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOA-ELECTRONICS-A712-700-Series-Integrated-Mixer-Amplifiers-/291132910097?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item43c8dfaa11.

However, it doesn't look right to me because it has so many "inputs" knobs but for my application I need many"outputs" instead so I can control each speaker?

Again, guys I appreciate all your responses. Please give me some professional advise to sort this out.
If you want to control the levels separately you need a multi zone amplifer.

As far as positioning-a lot of it depends on where you CAN put speakers.  Very often in a situation like this-the ideal place does not always make sense-so you have to go with where you can put them.

There are all sorts of other things that can "get in the way" in a place like this-such as TVs- signs-lights-banners and so forth.

So unless all of those locations are known-it is hard to say.  If there is a sign right in front of the speaker-it makes that speaker pretty worthless.

In many cases other people consider many things more important than the sound.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Steven Barnes

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From the floor plans the room is pretty small, as stated above buy a cheap pro grade multi zone amp, there are quite a few manufactured that sell they with external source/zone controls for the different areas if you need that flexibility.

As far as speakers, I would go with something full range be it in-ceiling speakers or box style speakers and get rid of the sub. There are quite a few options out there it all depends on budget you are working with.



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Josh Millward

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Well, there is nothing like making things more complicated than you need to.

I see that this is not that big of a place, so there are a couple different tacks you can take to accomplish what you want to do.

One course would be to just get some basic 70V loudspeakers and a typical 70V amplifier. This way you could have one source throughout the place and you could use a couple 70V attenuators to adjust levels for the different zones. I can see one zone outside, one in the bar area, one in the VIP area, and one in the kitchen. Of course, you do not have to put loudspeakers in all those areas, but if I were doing it, I probably would. Having an attenuator on each zone will allow you to dynamically adjust each zone's level without affecting the other zones.

For a simple system like this where I was only planning to ever have one single input, I would probably buy one of these:
Peavey Architectural Acoustics UMA-1502

If you wanted to separate those four zones into totally different areas with different music and such, then something like this might be a better choice (you can route any of the five input channels to any combination of output zones):
Peavey Architectural Acoustics PZS-140RA

Loudspeakers for a simple cafe style system like this can easily be something like this:
Peavey ISM-5Tx

If you think you need a subwoofer, I would mount it up high, perhaps attached to one of those supporting beams. This will keep it out of the way and much more difficult for someone to take out of the store. There is seemingly no end to the number of different self powered subwoofers that are available, but I would probably look into one of these (depending on how much output you really need):
Peavey PVXp Sub
Peavey EU-118D

For what it is worth, you are talking about an extremely simple system that should be very easy for someone who knows what they are doing to install in a day.

Also, I am an employee of Peavey Electronics Corporation's Peavey Commercial Audio division. However, even if I didn't work here, I would probably still be looking to this gear for a solution because it is rock solid and will work well for a long time when properly installed.
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Josh Millward
Danley Sound Labs

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