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Author Topic: sound for streaming live to internet  (Read 908 times)

Garrett Nelson

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sound for streaming live to internet
« on: May 04, 2014, 11:44:59 pm »

So, my church streams services to the internet. Currently using livestream.com but having some problems there so we may possibly move to a different service.

Currently, the sound is not so great and I would like to improve that.

Current equipment:
Soundcraft GB8 32-channel analog mixer
Canon XLH1 HD camera
SDI to HDMI converter box
Livestream Broadcaster
Shure "room" microphone of some sort

Currently, sound for the Livestream box comes from one of the aux outs on the mixer. The Shure "room mic" is at the back of the church and it's output is fed only to the livestream mix to help add some presence so it does not sound so dry.

The problem is that sound for the internet stream is not monitored/adjusted during the service, and I don't think the person running sound is going to be able to keep up with running a 2nd mix for the internet stream. There is also no audio metering for the internet stream, so the person running the camera (or the person running the sound) has no idea when the audio into the Livestream box is being overdriven into severe clipping.

I think the person running the camera for the streaming should have on a good set of headphones to monitor what audio is getting sent out with the stream. I also think the person running the camera needs an audio meter of some sort to keep an eye on so they know when the signal is clipping and needs to be turned down. Beyond that, there seems to be no clear path to fix the issues.

I see some possible options:

1. Set up a 2nd mixer that the person running the camera would use to mix sound for the internet stream. Run outputs from each channel on the main mixer to inputs on the 2nd mixer for streaming. Not sure if we have the physical space for a 2nd sound board of any decent size, so this is pretty impractical for space reasons as well as cost.

2. Get some appropriate microphones strategically placed in the room and feed them into a small dedicated mixer for the internet stream. This would be the primary sound for the internet stream. Possibly split off the pastor's mic to a channel on this small mixer so that could come through directly as clearly as possible, anything else would come through the room mics. I am thinking of a 4-8 channel mixer here, very simple to operate.

3. Replace the main sound board with a digital board and have the person running the camera use an iPad to run the aux-out on the board feeding the live stream audio.

4. Have the person running the camera lean over and adjust the aux-outs on the mixer themselves. May not be very practical because the mixer we have is fairly large.

5. The person running sound is just going to have twice the work to do, constantly switching to headphones to monitor and adjust the live stream mix.

The more I think about it, option 2 is sounding better and better to me. It sacrifices sound quality during music for simplicity and consistency.

Any thoughts here? How do other churches handle this? The church I came from previously used option 4, but we had a fairly compact mixer that let us get away with it.
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Jerome Malsack

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Re: sound for streaming live to internet
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 08:40:10 am »

Have you had time to read this article? 

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/church_sound_putting_together_a_broadcast_mix/church

With the option 2 the pastor mic will not be time synced with the room mic's possibly making him muddied by room and reverb? 
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Tom Young

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Re: sound for streaming live to internet
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 04:15:44 pm »

So, my church streams services to the internet. Currently using livestream.com but having some problems there so we may possibly move to a different service. ........Any thoughts here? How do other churches handle this? The church I came from previously used option 4, but we had a fairly compact mixer that let us get away with it.

Your situation is exactly the same as found when recording a service from the FOH mixer, which has been covered, ad infinitum, here at PSW and elsewhere over the years.

Here is a very abbreviated list of rules that apply:

1. You will not be able to mix properly for this second medium from within the space even if you have headphones. You need to be acoustically isolated.

2. If mixing from the (same) FOH mixer and using aux sends, they must be configured as "post fader / post EQ"

3. Attempting to have one person mix the house *and* also monitor (occasionally or continually) the record/broadcast/streaming mix is a really bad idea.

Search here and elsewhere for "board mix", "recording live shows", "recording church services",
"ambient microphones in recording", etc.

The better articles and threads will provide details of what won't work and what will.....and why.
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Jeff Carter

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Re: sound for streaming live to internet
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2014, 04:35:46 pm »

Have you had time to read this article? 

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/church_sound_putting_together_a_broadcast_mix/church

With the option 2 the pastor mic will not be time synced with the room mic's possibly making him muddied by room and reverb?

That article comes from a series Mike Sessler did on his blog, with the first article here:
http://churchtecharts.org/home/2014/3/10/the-broadcast-mix-pt-1
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dick rees

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Re: sound for streaming live to internet
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2014, 05:41:47 pm »

Your situation is exactly the same as found when recording a service from the FOH mixer, which has been covered, ad infinitum, here at PSW and elsewhere over the years.

Here is a very abbreviated list of rules that apply:

1. You will not be able to mix properly for this second medium from within the space even if you have headphones. You need to be acoustically isolated.

2. If mixing from the (same) FOH mixer and using aux sends, they must be configured as "post fader / post EQ"

3. Attempting to have one person mix the house *and* also monitor (occasionally or continually) the record/broadcast/streaming mix is a really bad idea.

Search here and elsewhere for "board mix", "recording live shows", "recording church services",
"ambient microphones in recording", etc.

The better articles and threads will provide details of what won't work and what will.....and why.

Another possibility is to combine a room mic at the rear of the hall with a delayed "board dub" to synch the two.  Simply balance the two and you have a pretty fair, quick mix for the camera and the stream.

Do it in real time, no post.  It's a pretty simple job for a volunteer and requires only a room mic, delay synch capability and a small mix pad to combine the two.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: sound for streaming live to internet
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2014, 06:04:17 pm »

Another possibility is to combine a room mic at the rear of the hall with a delayed "board dub" to synch the two.  Simply balance the two and you have a pretty fair, quick mix for the camera and the stream.

Do it in real time, no post.  It's a pretty simple job for a volunteer and requires only a room mic, delay synch capability and a small mix pad to combine the two.

Put the room mic at the front, near the speakers and you don't need the delay.

Mac
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dick rees

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Re: sound for streaming live to internet
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2014, 07:03:31 pm »

Put the room mic at the front, near the speakers and you don't need the delay.

Mac

I like to haveit back a bit for balance...and ease of deployment.  Of course in a fuixed install it may be easier to situate it up close. 
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Garrett Nelson

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Re: sound for streaming live to internet
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2014, 07:20:46 pm »

Thanks for the excellent advice everyone.
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Michael Elphinstone

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Re: sound for streaming live to internet
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2014, 11:09:53 pm »

We just create a rough aux mix prior to the service for our camera feed, which includes an ambient crowd mic. Send it all to the camera, then via HDMI to a BlackMagic box connected to our streaming Mac. We use Ustream, which has worked well for us. Does it sound perfect? No. Is is manageable for one sound tech and one vision tech? Yes. For us it's a trade-off. We've only got 10-15 viewers a service, so we're not too fussed. It's not rotten, just not as good as we would like. If you want amazing sound, come to church. Otherwise you get average sound for the stream (which you also sometimes get at church!).

Cheers,
Michael
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: sound for streaming live to internet
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2014, 01:43:23 am »

All of the above is good advice.

In not my church but a sister church that streams, they also have a feed from an AUX send on the FOH board. They don't actively mix the sound for the stream, but there is a compressor in the feed to the PC to provide some normalization of the loudness. It seems to work OK.

There are audience/ambiance mics that are mixed into the stream. They are placed near the front.

It helps that the church doesn't have a worship band. A regular service consists of the spoken word and congregational singing accompanied by organ or piano. Occasionally for a wedding or funeral there will be vocalists, usually accompanied by organ or piano.
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