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Author Topic: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....  (Read 8010 times)

Jimmy Goines

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2014, 12:02:42 AM »

Thanks for replies folks, I appreciate every one and each gets me thinking further....sorry, I have to get use to your forum posting format as I am most acquainted with vB...

I should have been more specific with our exact needs in my first post....Building 1 is our social hall where we need a live sound feed during services when folks are out there cooking for a dinner after the service...The 2nd feed would be the Nursery which would not be used as much...

I had no idea that I could accomplish such with wireless microphone tx & rx equipment like we might use in sanctuary...

So, my specific needs would be a wireless transmitter unit fed live by mixer board Control Room Out, and received by a speaker or receiver unit in the Social Hall and sometimes in the Nursery building room...and yes, maybe some headsets in the Sanctuary for hearing impaired members....

I need some suggestions and info links on what equipment would accomplish this...And, will the wireless solution be fairly clean sound on the "other" end...?

I know it might seem I'm trying to avoid all the labor with installing cable wired and all the other amps and speakers, just want to compare cost and quality aspects...

Thanks much for replies folks.....what I'm looking for would be installed as a wall mounted fixture and would need some sort of sound volume control if needed by folks in the social hall.....
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 12:18:39 AM by Jimmy Goines »
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lindsay Dean

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2014, 01:02:37 PM »

Thanks for replies folks, I appreciate every one and each gets me thinking further....sorry, I have to get use to your forum posting format as I am most acquainted with vB...

I should have been more specific with our exact needs in my first post....Building 1 is our social hall where we need a live sound feed during services when folks are out there cooking for a dinner after the service...The 2nd feed would be the Nursery which would not be used as much...

I had no idea that I could accomplish such with wireless microphone tx & rx equipment like we might use in sanctuary...

So, my specific needs would be a wireless transmitter unit fed live by mixer board Control Room Out, and received by a speaker or receiver unit in the Social Hall and sometimes in the Nursery building room...and yes, maybe some headsets in the Sanctuary for hearing impaired members....

I need some suggestions and info links on what equipment would accomplish this...And, will the wireless solution be fairly clean sound on the "other" end...?

I know it might seem I'm trying to avoid all the labor with installing cable wired and all the other amps and speakers, just want to compare cost and quality aspects...

Thanks much for replies folks.....what I'm looking for would be installed as a wall mounted fixture and would need some sort of sound volume control if needed by folks in the social hall.....


we use a low power fm transmitter at my church
 for over 4 years  trouble free
the FCC allows this, here is the link https://www.fcc.gov/guides/low-power-broadcast-radio-stations
i run the mix stereo  to a compressor then to the transmitter
it sounds great , the school side uses it for homeroom times also.
we spent under $800
ok everybody pick it apart
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Tom Young

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2014, 04:05:16 PM »

None of the wireless microphone systems are designed to penetrate walls and they typically require remote antennae when walls separate the transmitter from the receivers. Same with PSM systems.  ALS systems can work for this application but require a better and more directional transmitting antenna. You need also to carefully select the antenna cable.

IMO you will be far better off to locate a qualified contractor who knows how to do this. You can probably arrange to buy the gear (that they recommend for your needs) from them and do the labor yourselves, provided you have volunteers who know how to do crimped connections and pull wire without damaging it.

You also need to consider which output you use on the mixer. You mentioned the Control Room output, but this is subject to the potential pitfall of sounding lousy (bad mix) when listened to In a remote room/space. Best to use a post fader/post EQ aux mix.
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2014, 05:20:23 PM »

...I think I am totally backwards in my mind. I think I was thinking of the case of two transmitters and one receiver, and you wouldn't get two distinctive signals to the same receiver...

Pardon me if I'm telling you what you already know. Feel free to skip to the lower half of this post.  :)

Me thinks there was some initial confusion about the difference between a transmitter and a receiver. For traditional analog wireless systems (and possibly some digital systems, I don't know), the transmitter connects to the sound source (i.e., microphone) and the receiver connects to the next device in the audio chain (i.e., mixer). A transmitter is a broadcast device which means it sends unaddressed data (usually an analog audio signal) out into space modulated with a carrier frequency. Any receiver that is tuned to that carrier frequency and is in range can demodulate the signal back into simple analog audio. Therefore, you can have one transmitter emitting a radio signal that can be received by multiple receivers. However, each analog transmitter in an area must use a different frequency to avoid interference. You cannot have multiple analog transmitters broadcasting to a single receiver.

(Note that with digital wireless systems, the audio is encoded in digital data packets. These packets can be addressed to particular receivers. In this manner, multiple transmitters can share the same frequency and deliver separate audio streams to multiple receivers. However, because the transmitter and receiver must be paired (like bluetooth), you generally cannot have one transmitter and multiple receivers.)

I should have been more specific with our exact needs in my first post....Building 1 is our social hall where we need a live sound feed during services when folks are out there cooking for a dinner after the service...The 2nd feed would be the Nursery which would not be used as much...

The needs of one person do not differ from the needs of many. The fact that one area is busy and the other area not so much doesn't really change the approach taken to getting the audio feed there. What can change the approach you take is the distance between the sanctuary and these other areas, and what paths are available and what obstructions are in the way. How you reproduce the sound once it gets there is a topic for another discussion.

Costs aside, a cabled feed will almost always provide a better quality signal. There are factors that can make wireless a better solution, such as cost, radio frequency interference, barriers that make a cabled installation nearly impossible (such as a paved parking lot between the facilities), and environmental factors that could damage a wired installation.

When considering a wireless solution, remember that some wall materials pass RF better than others. For example, glass and dry wood are nearly transparent. Gypsum wallboard moderately blocks RF. Some formulations of plaster -- especially if backed by metal mesh lath -- are very effective at blocking RF. Lead based paint (old walls) can have some effect. Concrete is also very effective at blocking RF.

If you find you must penetrate walls, either with audio cable or RF coax, be careful not to compromise the fire rating of the wall. This may require special techniques and materials. Never run cables through smoke dampers or ducting, even if plenum rated. Cables run in a false ceiling space that is used as a cold air return must be plenum rated.

Another thing that you will need to consider is that the audio mix for those areas will be different than the FOH (Front of House -- the main loudspeakers) mix for your sanctuary. There has been ample discussion in many different threads in this forum discussing this, some recently. I would encourage you to search for and review those discussions. This mix will be similar to mixes used for broadcast, recording, and Internet streaming.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 05:28:19 PM by Jonathan Johnson »
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Jimmy Goines

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2014, 01:50:08 PM »

You also need to consider which output you use on the mixer. You mentioned the Control Room output, but this is subject to the potential pitfall of sounding lousy (bad mix) when listened to In a remote room/space. Best to use a post fader/post EQ aux mix.

Thank you Tom...I have never used our Control Room out so i have no idea of this mix quality, but I can see your point...I am using all of our aux sends for monitors in 2 areas, stage and choir loft and getting an "area" monitor blend that I'm real happy with as for the sound quality...

I did however check in my mixer manual, and on the Main House Mix Out it has full balance XLR & TSR Z- balanced jacks that can be used simultaneously...I am using the XLR jack house mix out sent to EQ and power amps, so I have the TSR main out jack available....
I'm now thinking for preliminaries, that I should set up a small wired satellite PA to test my mixer feed qualities from different outs...

Thank you also for your other comments, my main wonders on the wireless setup has been whether it would work thru 2 exterior building walls...
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Jimmy Goines

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2014, 02:24:05 PM »

...Another thing that you will need to consider is that the audio mix for those areas will be different than the FOH (Front of House -- the main loudspeakers) mix for your sanctuary. There has been ample discussion in many different threads in this forum discussing this, some recently. I would encourage you to search for and review those discussions. This mix will be similar to mixes used for broadcast, recording, and Internet streaming.

Thank you Jonathan for your specific information in several areas....
I was looking into the Alto STEALTH Wireless System for powered PA speakers, as being the proper Tx & Rx principle setup, but again wondering if such would pass thru exterior walls with quality success...

My FOH live mix always changes between our 3 different singing groups performances every week, I have several mics dedicated to certain singers, but a few mics are shared between certain singers...I'm pretty well practiced on shared channels for eq and volume blends on the fly...Yes, it would be nice to have a better mixer with channel eq presets...
My aux feeds for monitors are fairly constant set with minor tweaks as needed...
So gives my thinking that I would need to use FOH mix for satellite locations...I will certainly look for other threads and such to try understand the mix needed for satellite application...
Edit: Maybe "auxiliary" is a better word here than "satellite" location or application...

...This mix will be similar to mixes used for broadcast, recording, and Internet streaming.
Yes, this dawns on me now as I have had to change my FOH mix alot when I've done recordings in past, albeit 2 channel recording is all I can do from our mixer...

Thanks much, I appreciate all and future suggestions....JimmyG
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 02:43:58 PM by Jimmy Goines »
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Jerome Malsack

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2014, 03:12:44 PM »

On the wired solution  you might want to see if the phone systems to the buildings can support the wired connections.   We have land lnes into most older buildings and have they been disconnected from the wall into the building.  can the audio be connected into an unterminated pair and be placed into the two buildings.  Possibly.  What cost from phone company to service and connect.  Is there a bill after connection.

 
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2014, 07:38:23 AM »

Or you can use any computers you have in each building and send the audio over your LAN.

You really haven't given much information about the distances involved and what (if any) wiring might be in place for other purposes...as well as what audio gear you already possess which might be re-purposed.
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Bill Schnake

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 07:42:01 AM »

Keeping in mind, Jimmy, that *with the ULX/P model mentioned, as well as other possible solutions utilizing professional wireless units in the UHF bands, that you typically would be using for wireless mics or whatnot* one transmitter is going to connect to only one receiver at a time.

-Ray

edit: clarify type of wireless that might be limited to one tx/rx
Ray, I may have misunderstood what you wrote, but one transmitter will connect to as many receivers that are on the same frequency.  We do an event where we have to supply sound to two delay towers on opposite sides of a lake.  We set the transmitter to channel 21 and as long as both receivers are on the same channel as the transmitter they will both receive the same signal.  We do the same thing in Churches that require wireless speaker systems. ;)


Bill
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Bill Schnake

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Re: Sending live sound feed to other buildings....
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 07:42:01 AM »


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