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Author Topic: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable  (Read 1568 times)

Cailen Waddell

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2014, 08:24:31 am »


So the "cost" of this cable is roughly $125 not taking into account all the volume discounts etc that Sennheiser surely gets.  This is where oem's can really piss off customers.  I don't think anyone begrudges a 25-50% profit to an oem.  But when they start marking up 100%+ just because it has their name on it, people get ticked off.  I would be making my own.  This is exactly why I refuse to use Honda oil in my motorcycle or Polaris oil in my atv and snowmobile.  Oem's think putting their name on something they had made by the lowest bidder entitles them to a stratospheric markup.

I don't know about sound, but in the lighting (touchscreens for an ion lighting console for example) industry, this often happens because OEMs don't want to sell it to you.  What? Yes, it costs money and people to stock it, order it, ship it. So they offer it because they 'have to' but are just as happy when you figure out how to buy it on your own.  They want to sell you the $10,000 part not te $200 accessory that someone else already makes.
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2014, 10:26:23 am »

We get our coax and connectors from The Wireman, which is a cheap-looking website mostly frequented by ham radio types. But they have some nice heavy RG-8 at reasonable prices, and they sell matching ends which (their recommendation) can be assembled with a soldering station and wrenches... no crimper needed.
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Alex Rigodanzo

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2014, 01:29:42 pm »


But there's still the knowledge that the specs are what the initial product requires. For some, that is worth a premium. I don't want to be the one onsite who is trying to explain to the client why (insert anything here) doesn't work because I was a bit too cheap to get the right spec'd gear. Or even worse, an array that falls because I didn't want to buy the right rigging hardware for the job. May be a bit of an extreme example, but it's on the same token. What the manufacturer has determined will do the job without fail. (Save a total screw up on my end. Haha)

-Ray

I agree with that for the big fish swimming in the big pond with big clients.  But for the small fish the Lounge caters to, with small, tight-wad clients, that extra expense often can't be justified.  A cable like the op is referring to is a prime example.

In my case specifically, it's speaker cables.  The price for pre-fab cables with speak-ons is ridiculous compared to what I could buy bulk cable and connectors for to make my own.
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Jason Glass

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2014, 09:17:01 pm »

I agree with that for the big fish swimming in the big pond with big clients.  But for the small fish the Lounge caters to, with small, tight-wad clients, that extra expense often can't be justified.  A cable like the op is referring to is a prime example.

In my case specifically, it's speaker cables.  The price for pre-fab cables with speak-ons is ridiculous compared to what I could buy bulk cable and connectors for to make my own.

I agree that these things are somewhat overpriced, but did you know that there's much more to building a high-performance RF connector/cable assembly than continuity?  You can bet that Sennheiser does, in extreme detail, and that expertise is one of the many things that you're paying for along with the materials.  Another is the $10,000.00 automatic stripping and cable prep machine that is required to mass produce these things at the required level of precision.  The list goes on.

paul bell

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2014, 12:28:00 am »

....Another is the $10,000.00 automatic stripping and cable prep machine that is required to mass produce these things at the required level of precision.

I can't imagine Sennheiser sells enough antenna cables to warrant having a $10,000.00 stripping machine. I'd say it's more likely they have somebody else make the cable sets to their specifications which they then QC and the cost reflects two companies adding their mark ups.
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Lyle Williams

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2014, 03:04:39 am »

I agree that these things are somewhat overpriced, but did you know that there's much more to building a high-performance RF connector/cable assembly than continuity?  You can bet that Sennheiser does, in extreme detail, and that expertise is one of the many things that you're paying for along with the materials.  Another is the $10,000.00 automatic stripping and cable prep machine that is required to mass produce these things at the required level of precision.  The list goes on.

$10k machine to get the level of precision to terminate a BNC connector on coax cable? You have got to be joking.

And yes, I do have the gear to test coax cables properly (VNA/TDR.)
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Steve Kennedy-Williams

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2014, 10:17:09 am »

$10k machine to get the level of precision to terminate a BNC connector on coax cable? You have got to be joking.

And yes, I do have the gear to test coax cables properly (VNA/TDR.)

Properly spec'd cable, quality connectors, crimped.

As said before, you want 50 ohm, shielded cable with nice handling characteristics. I haven't bought any lately, so I'd speak to a sales rep at Westlake Electronics or Markertek.

Cable selection determines connector type, you are looking at $2-5 a connector, and $200 for a crimp handle and die set to match your cable and connector.

As to crimp vs. solder? Solder is an electrical connection with mechanical strength. Crimp gives a solid electrical connection with increased mechanical strength.

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John Woodfield

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2014, 02:10:35 pm »

RG6 is just wrong as many have mentioned already.

I wouldn't suggest RG8 either.

RG58 has the correct resistance  but is garbage.

I would use LMR240 at a minimum.

If you are hell bent on putting your own cable together you can get compression fittings that have a solder on center conductor. That doesn't require any special tools

Connectors:

http://www.rfparts.com/rfb1101-1x.html

LMR240:

http://www.rfparts.com/lmr240.html

For $300 you could assemble 1/4 heliax cable which would obviously be the best. I wouldn't ever spend $300 on the advertised Sennheiser product.

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Lyle Williams

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2014, 04:57:30 pm »

Once you get into heliax and any semi-rigid or rigid coax you are into a different world entirely.  These products have the handling characteristics of copper plumbing pipe.  Not very practical.  But yes, the $300 price would be enough to make a monster like that.  :-)

BNC connectors to go onto .405" cable like 9913/LMR400/RG213 are more expensive than regular ones.  Probably more like $15/end in my locality.

The differences between crimp and solder are overrated.  Both are adequate.  The center pin in a BNC sits in a dielectric sleeve that prevents it being pulled out of the cable.
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John Woodfield

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Re: Am I missing something??!!? RF Cable
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2014, 04:23:15 pm »

Once you get into heliax and any semi-rigid or rigid coax you are into a different world entirely.  These products have the handling characteristics of copper plumbing pipe.  Not very practical.  But yes, the $300 price would be enough to make a monster like that.  :-)

BNC connectors to go onto .405" cable like 9913/LMR400/RG213 are more expensive than regular ones.  Probably more like $15/end in my locality.

The differences between crimp and solder are overrated.  Both are adequate.  The center pin in a BNC sits in a dielectric sleeve that prevents it being pulled out of the cable.

You can get Heliax superflex that is pretty easy to work with.
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