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Author Topic: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?  (Read 3219 times)

Jon McElvain

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2014, 05:01:23 pm »

We have not made the purchase yet so there's still hope for us going a different direction.  Let me give a description of our current setup.

The two main Electro-Voice FRX-640 speakers are located about 22 above the center of the platform, these two speakers are powered by EP2500 amplifiers in bridged mode.  There are four small speakers mounted under the balcony that are being powered on one channel of an EP2000 amplifier.  The second channel on the EP2000 amplifier is powering the two stage monitors.  Our board is a Midas Venice 240 and that is currently feeding into a Electro-Voice Dx38 24 BIT DIgital Sound System Processor.  The #1 input on the Dx38 is feeding the two main speakers (Outs #1 & #2) and the four under balcony speakers (Out #4) and the #2 input is feeding the monitors (Out #3).  Currently, the only processing being done by the Dx38 is a delay on the under balcony speakers.  It looks like it has a 5-band PEQ that might be enough to eliminate the majority of the offending frequencies.  We normally use 6 Sennheiser 100 series wireless microphones and often only four of them are used for praise singing with the occasional guitar or two.  Praise time is almost always done in the same general area and announcements are done front and center.  The sanctuary is in the range of 40 feet deep and maybe 60 feet wide.  Our issues with feedback generally result from people using the microphones incorrectly (we're trying  to educate but have little hope for success) or when several of the microphones are used to roam the sanctuary under the balcony that is out of view pretty much forcing us to leave them open.

Would you feel better about us purchasing something like the dbx iEQ 31 Equalizer?  Or should we just go bare bones with something like the DOD SR231QX Graphic Equalizer?
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dick rees

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2014, 05:41:16 pm »

We have not made the purchase yet so there's still hope for us going a different direction.  Let me give a description of our current setup.

The two main Electro-Voice FRX-640 speakers are located about 22 above the center of the platform, these two speakers are powered by EP2500 amplifiers in bridged mode.  There are four small speakers mounted under the balcony that are being powered on one channel of an EP2000 amplifier.  The second channel on the EP2000 amplifier is powering the two stage monitors.  Our board is a Midas Venice 240 and that is currently feeding into a Electro-Voice Dx38 24 BIT DIgital Sound System Processor.  The #1 input on the Dx38 is feeding the two main speakers (Outs #1 & #2) and the four under balcony speakers (Out #4) and the #2 input is feeding the monitors (Out #3).  Currently, the only processing being done by the Dx38 is a delay on the under balcony speakers.  It looks like it has a 5-band PEQ that might be enough to eliminate the majority of the offending frequencies.  We normally use 6 Sennheiser 100 series wireless microphones and often only four of them are used for praise singing with the occasional guitar or two.  Praise time is almost always done in the same general area and announcements are done front and center.  The sanctuary is in the range of 40 feet deep and maybe 60 feet wide.  Our issues with feedback generally result from people using the microphones incorrectly (we're trying  to educate but have little hope for success) or when several of the microphones are used to roam the sanctuary under the balcony that is out of view pretty much forcing us to leave them open.

Would you feel better about us purchasing something like the dbx iEQ 31 Equalizer?  Or should we just go bare bones with something like the DOD SR231QX Graphic Equalizer?


the DX38 is head and shoulders above the DR.  You already have the gear you need, so don't waste any money on more.  What you need to do is find a competent system tech to go through things with/for you, pay them to set it up properly and have them give you the short course in the "how-to's".

Groping, guessing and looking for "magic beans" to purchase will cost you a lot more than hiring a competent professional to assist you, both in money and frustration.

DIY without experience is very, vey expensive.

Hire help.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 05:48:09 pm by dick rees »
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Jon McElvain

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2014, 10:15:23 pm »

Do you think it would be worth picking up a 31 band EQ on the cheap just for use ringing out the room and then transfer the settings for the offending frequencies to the Dx38?

There is a used unit at B&H for under $100. Was tempting. Since I am not spending my own money I can't just pull the trigger.  Seems like doing the setup with a parametric EQ hidden in the menus would be a lot more effort.

I may have a friend with one that I can just borrow.
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dick rees

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2014, 10:21:14 pm »

Do you think it would be worth picking up a 31 band EQ on the cheap just for use ringing out the room and then transfer the settings for the offending frequencies to the Dx38?


No.

Hire competent help.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2014, 10:31:33 pm »

Jon,
If you post you location someone here may be able to help you out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Jon McElvain

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2014, 11:07:02 pm »

Jon,
If you post you location someone here may be able to help you out. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I may have a resource already through the church, but I'm on the opposite side of the Puget Sound from Seattle.  If you're in the area you'll know what I'm talking about.
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Corey Scogin

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2014, 11:24:01 pm »

Do you think it would be worth picking up a 31 band EQ on the cheap just for use ringing out the room and then transfer the settings for the offending frequencies to the Dx38?

If you're planning to tune the system yourself, I'd just learn how to quickly adjust the DX38's parametric EQ.  The 31-band GEQ settings will not easily translate to a PEQ.  Sounds like all you need is a measurement microphone, interface, and an RTA to get started.

As Mr. Rees mentioned already, hiring someone to tune the system and walk you through the process will be money well spent.  Definitely worth more than a DriveRack PA.

...I'm on the opposite side of the Puget Sound from Seattle.
I'm not an expert by any means but if you'll fly my wife and I up from Alabama, I'll be glad to help you out!  I'd like to visit the NW.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2014, 06:29:28 am »

Do you think it would be worth picking up a 31 band EQ on the cheap just for use ringing out the room and then transfer the settings for the offending frequencies to the Dx38?

There is a used unit at B&H for under $100. Was tempting. Since I am not spending my own money I can't just pull the trigger.  Seems like doing the setup with a parametric EQ hidden in the menus would be a lot more effort.

I may have a friend with one that I can just borrow.
Not to be "picky" but how were you planning on coming up with the "numbers" to enter into the DSP?

By looking at the front panel of graphic and "hoping" that the silk screened number on the graphic are remotely correct?

Good luck with that.

It appears as if you keep trying your best to do it the wrong way and somehow hoping you will get lucky enough to somehow get close enough?

That is a long shot at best.

Aligning a sound system is not a "guessing game".  At least to do it right.

And if feedback is is a cocnern-then a good alignment (not "ringing out" the room) is the best starting point.

Sorry.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2014, 02:21:20 pm »

If you buy a 31 band EQ and ring out the room with it - just leave it connected.


Steve.
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dick rees

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Re: Any recommendations for an affordable feedback eliminator?
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2014, 02:28:48 pm »

Not to be "picky" but how were you planning on coming up with the "numbers" to enter into the DSP?

By looking at the front panel of graphic and "hoping" that the silk screened number on the graphic are remotely correct?

Good luck with that.

It appears as if you keep trying your best to do it the wrong way and somehow hoping you will get lucky enough to somehow get close enough?

That is a long shot at best.

Aligning a sound system is not a "guessing game".  At least to do it right.

And if feedback is is a cocnern-then a good alignment (not "ringing out" the room) is the best starting point.

Sorry.

Yup.

After all the bits and pieces have been presented, it would seem that the system was well installed and likely tuned competently given the config and gear involved.  What appears to be the issue is the inability or lack of interest by the participants to learn proper technique and system use.

IOW...OE.
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