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Author Topic: Brand name cost me gigs  (Read 9672 times)

Scott Olewiler

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Brand name cost me gigs
« on: April 17, 2014, 11:00:34 am »

I just lost a deal with a local "supergroup" (band made up of various members of very well established local heavy hitters) because I use Behringer power amps.

I'm personally very happy with the amps, other than the fact they're a little noisy in an empty room, but the income they cost me would have more than made up for the price difference to buy a more acceptable brand name. Ouch.  Really makes me rethink me equipment list. I know my rig sounds great, but if potential clients are discounting me based on their opinions of the equipment I own I have to wonder how many phones calls I never got because the equip list on my website isn't "good" enough.

Yeah, they said as long as I was using those amps they could not use me. At least they were honest about it. They also said I needed to have (4) LS808s instead of the 2 I currently use. That one puzzled me a bit as there are no rooms(they'd be only playing bars and clubs) in my area that would require 4 of those cabs for live music.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 11:05:24 am »

I just lost a deal with a local "supergroup" (band made up of various members of very well established local heavy hitters) because I use Behringer power amps.

I'm personally very happy with the amps, other than the fact they're a little noisy in an empty room, but the income they cost me would have more than made up for the price difference to buy a more acceptable brand name. Ouch.  Really makes me rethink me equipment list. I know my rig sounds great, but if potential clients are discounting me based on their opinions of the equipment I own I have to wonder how many phones calls I never got because the equip list on my website isn't "good" enough.

Yeah, they said as long as I was using those amps they could not use me. At least they were honest about it. They also said I needed to have (4) LS808s instead of the 2 I currently use. That one puzzled me a bit as there are no rooms(they'd be only playing bars and clubs) in my area that would require 4 of those cabs for live music.
Welcome to the world of riders.  Sometimes you've got to pay to play.  Whether that is a good business decision depends on how many gigs you would potentially lose vs. the cost of more expensive gear, or more gear.
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 11:06:58 am »

That's pretty much a given in the audio world technical riders almost always write off NO Behringer. that is with the exception now the X32 is gaining some acceptance, I do like it better than the Yamaha LS9.

Peronally I would buy used amps from a trusted brand (QSC, CROWN, etc) over buying new amps from behringer etc.

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Alex Rigodanzo

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 11:11:25 am »

The short answer is to sell them and replace with RMX's.  The great thing about amps is that as long as they're working, the prices don't really fall much.  You can usually sell off for almost what you paid for an amp making any loss look like a very small rental fee.

On the other hand, if this "supergroup" is just a bunch of locals playing bars and clubs, I think they're being entirely too picky.  I'm sure none of them could tell the difference between the B's and Q's just by listening.  And as long as you carry a spare in case of failure, what's the diff?
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jasonfinnigan

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 11:17:02 am »

I'm sure none of them could tell the difference between the B's and Q's just by listening.  And as long as you carry a spare in case of failure, what's the diff?

I kind of dobut there is much if any audible quality difference. I haven't ever user a behringer amp or speaker. but I'm guessing the cost saving and the issue are mainly in the are of reliability. Any amp will have some amount of hiss in an empty room with nothing playing if it's high power, even our QSC PLs have some hiss on our stage wedges.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 11:24:42 am »

On the other hand, if this "supergroup" is just a bunch of locals playing bars and clubs, I think they're being entirely too picky.  I'm sure none of them could tell the difference between the B's and Q's just by listening.  And as long as you carry a spare in case of failure, what's the diff?
The "diff" is satisfying customer requirements.  Who is paying for this?  They are the ones who decide who and what tools are appropriate for the gig.

Some riders are ridiculous, and are only there to feed the ego of the act.  Other riders require a certain level of gear, as that is usually, though not always, an indication of the company's ability to not suck at doing the gig.

If the band has enough pull to say "no Behringer" (which IMO is totally reasonable, btw), that's the way it is.  If the promoter finds out that it will cost $XXX more to do the show because of their technical requirements, it's up to the promoter and act to fight it out.

In any business, building a reputation is everything.  If you can be trusted to pull the show off, the tools you use become less important.  Until you have that relationship with a particular customer (and even after that), gear matters.
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Taylor Hall

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 11:29:35 am »

We're going through the same phase now. We started with all Behringer amps and while they've been nothing but rock-solid for us, we're beginning to "thin the herd" and replace them with more "reputable" amps that could satisfy future riders. The good thing is that we can still use them on a B rig where riders wouldn't matter as much and for our personal events where we'll be the ones providing our own sound.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 11:35:15 am »

The customer is always right, even then they're ______.

Can't you rent more speakers if needed for a bigger gig?

It is pretty common to ASSume that sound companies using the cheapest gear will also cut other corners and be less professional about other decisons.

Behringer has made a lot of progress trying to reposition themselves, but it is pretty much impossible to enjoy that much success at entry level and simultaneously be considered professional.

Good luck..

JR
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2014, 12:08:25 pm »

I'm personally very happy with the amps, other than the fact they're a little noisy in an empty room, but the income they cost me would have more than made up for the price difference to buy a more acceptable brand name. Ouch.

A little noisy is a very bad quality in audio gear.  A lot of Behinger's gear has extremely poor sonic performance.  This has changed pretty dramatically in the last couple of years, especially noticeable in the X32 line.

A common complaint on the Behringer amps is that they don't perform as well as more professional amps with the same power rating.  I personally experienced this with an older EP2500, which on paper is supposed to be almost identical to a QSC RMX2450.  I can tell you that they aren't even CLOSE in performance.  The QSC walked all over the Behringer without question.  Now, that doesn't mean that you can't get enough Behringer rig to do the job, it's just that it is harder to trust the specs on paper.  When you're selling your services, that's what you have to go by when they don't know your technical abilities.

The sad thing is that it is hard to sell technical ability to some clients.  Someone with a checkbook and deep pockets could buy all the most expensive gear in the world, but have no clue how to deploy it.  Meanwhile, someone that knows what they are doing should be able to make any equipment provided to them function to the best of its ability. 

Anyway, from a business perspective, you need to look at what your clients focus on.  For very entry level jobs, brand name doesn't matter much.  When you get into the mid-line corporate work, brand names that are recognizable by the general public are valuable.  i.e., someone booking an event for the first time will likely be familiar with the JBL brand name, but may never have heard of EAW.   If those are the clients you are going for, selecting JBL can be a hand up in the sale.  Doesn't mean that the gear is any better, but the perception is that it is higher quality stuff to the uninformed.
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Alex Rigodanzo

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Re: Brand name cost me gigs
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2014, 12:23:19 pm »

The "diff" is satisfying customer requirements.  Who is paying for this?  They are the ones who decide who and what tools are appropriate for the gig.

In any business, building a reputation is everything.  If you can be trusted to pull the show off, the tools you use become less important.  Until you have that relationship with a particular customer (and even after that), gear matters.

I may be entirely wrong, but this doesn't sound like a rider to me.  It sounds like, "So what gear do you use?"  "X, X, X and I use B amps."  "Sorry, we'll find someone else."  In my experience, most musicians have no idea what's involved in sound reinforcement and are just going on hearing bad things about Behringer.  If the rest of his rig is up to snuff (assuming he can borrow/rent the additional cabs), the B amps shouldn't kill the deal.

Of course, a lot depends on the options available in his market.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 12:31:34 pm by Alex Rigodanzo »
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