ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Proper use of a "power conditioner"?  (Read 1592 times)

dick rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5529
  • St Paul MN
Re: Power Conditioners on Amps
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2014, 02:18:40 pm »

I've always adhered to that philosophy, but... how does one protect the DSP on amps so equipped?

Meter your power.

Have "enough rig for the gig".

Know what you're doing.

Carry spares.
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Russ Davis

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 298
  • South Central VA and Pittsburgh PA
Re: Power Conditioners on Amps
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2014, 03:28:55 pm »

Why do you assume the DSP needs protection?  Amp designers know what they are making - a DSP engine that has to survive strapped to a rocket ship that sucks the mains voltage down to 100 volts on heavy peaks, etc.

Since we routinely protect power to our DSP, mixers, etc., at FOH, we are now expected to presume designers would make the amp-mounted DSPs sufficiently robust (especially when integrated into active speakers), but that's a bit of a leap of faith.  Otherwise, why not make ALL signal processors, FOH or otherwise, resistant to power anomalies?
Logged
"Garbage in, louder garbage out"

TJ (Tom) Cornish

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2502
  • St. Paul, MN
Re: Power Conditioners on Amps
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2014, 03:33:48 pm »

Since we routinely protect power to our DSP, mixers, etc., at FOH, we are now expected to presume designers would make the amp-mounted DSPs sufficiently robust (especially when integrated into active speakers), but that's a bit of a leap of faith.  Otherwise, why not make ALL signal processors, FOH or otherwise, resistant to power anomalies?
I would argue that generally they are.  There are a few devices that are overly power-sensitive - older Presonus StudioLives and a couple other things, but generally equipment is fine unless you're really abusing cord length and have voltage drop problems.  In that case, a power conditioner won't help you either.

I have a digital mixer, DSP amps, wireless mic receivers, IEM transmitters, keyboards, computers, video equipment.  I don't put "power conditioners" on any of it, unless I want a nice rack mount power strip with a switch on the front.

In my regular rig, there's only one power conditioner device in it, and it's an old Furman with the MOVs clipped.  Everything else is direct distribution.
Logged

jasonfinnigan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 300
Re: Power Conditioners on Amps
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2014, 03:40:58 pm »

but generally equipment is fine unless you're really abusing cord length and have voltage drop problems.  In that case, a power conditioner won't help you either.

Or using too low of gauge for the power draw. I've seen people trying to  draw 20AMPs on 16 gauge to 100ft. I personally use 10 gauge for most things.

I can attest that most power supply's are resilient to under-voltage. We rented some Powered Monitors (don't remember if they were RCF or DBtech) and our stage stringer had to much power drop at the other side of the stage where one was being used. The speakers would not even attempt to cut on (protecting itself). fixed the power drop and it worked fine.

Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 13054
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Power Conditioners on Amps
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2014, 04:01:47 pm »

Since we routinely protect power to our DSP, mixers, etc., at FOH, we are now expected to presume designers would make the amp-mounted DSPs sufficiently robust (especially when integrated into active speakers), but that's a bit of a leap of faith.  Otherwise, why not make ALL signal processors, FOH or otherwise, resistant to power anomalies?
Processing internal to the amp shares the same PSU as the amp itself and should share the same voltage regulation and protection afforded the CPU and ad/da converters that are part of the amp design itself.

It's a non problem for internal DSP.  For an external DSP unit do whatever makes you comfortable.

I've NEVER had a Furman "power conditioner" save anything....

« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 04:39:03 pm by Tim McCulloch »
Logged
Chewing through your wimpy dreams
They eat without a sound,
Digesting England by the pound.

dick rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5529
  • St Paul MN
Re: Power Conditioners on Amps
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2014, 04:33:21 pm »

Processing internal to the amp shares the same PSU as the amp itself and should share the same voltage regulation and protection afforded the CPU and ad/da converters that are part of the amp design itself.

It's a non problem for internal DSP.  For an external DSP unit do whatever makes you comfortable.

I've NEVER had a Furman save anything....

AR1215's have saved my a** and the show a couple of times...more than enough to pay for themselves.  Of course, they are not "power conditioners", but pretty fair line voltage regulators.
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 13054
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Power Conditioners on Amps
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2014, 04:36:04 pm »

AR1215's have saved my a** and the show a couple of times...more than enough to pay for themselves.  Of course, they are not "power conditioners", but pretty fair line voltage regulators.

I've never used their AVR products, only the kind marketed as "conditioners".  That is my experience base for the comment (now more specific in my post).
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 04:40:01 pm by Tim McCulloch »
Logged
Chewing through your wimpy dreams
They eat without a sound,
Digesting England by the pound.

Brian Marshall

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
Re: Proper use of a "power conditioner"?
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2014, 10:02:49 am »

Brian...

TJ and Bob give good info.  But here's the question:

What do you mean by "power conditioner"?

This term is so generic as to require a link or reference to a particular device for your answer.  What is generally needed for power regulation in typical sound system usage is voltage regulation....because as has often been said, power conditioners don't (do anything).

If you study the thread from which you took your link, you'll get a better understanding of the different devices, their applications and capabilities and why they are or are not appropriate.

I was asking specifically about what was mentioned in the thread in question. The Furman "power conditioners", also known as "rack mounted power strips". I am not interested in the use of UPS's or the multi-thousand dollar protection devices meant to save multi-thousand dollar corporate computer systems.

My curiosity exists because I employ the use of a Monster Power Pro 2500 in the FOH rack, and another one in the amp rack (Crown XTI series) If I were doing something that would endanger my amps, or prevent them from providing their rated output power, I would stop using it immediately. I will state for the record that in the case of my used Monster Pro 2500, it absolutely does something for the $100 I paid for it.

I was lighting a wedding gig with a ten foot steel truss with halogen 38's. I had plugged the dimmer pack directly into the wall and hung it on the truss. I proceeded to climb a ladder to start hanging cans. When I grabbed the dimmer box and the truss (both steel) I was presented with an unfriendly tingle up my arms! So back down the ladder I go, plugged the MP 2500 into the wall, then the dimmer pack into it, and guess what...no more shocks while hanging the cans! So I figure, if it's good enough for my body, it must be good enough for the Crowns. I've read all of the responses to this thread already, and realize these points have been covered. It took me a little longer to catch up and reply. Thanks everyone for your input/responses!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 10:05:18 am by Brian Marshall »
Logged

Robert Weston

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 560
  • Power is cheap, reputation is not.
Re: Power Conditioners on Amps
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2014, 10:09:50 am »

AR1215's have saved my a** and the show a couple of times...more than enough to pay for themselves.  Of course, they are not "power conditioners", but pretty fair line voltage regulators.

+1
Logged

Tim Perry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1205
  • Utica-Rome NY
Re: Proper use of a "power conditioner"?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2014, 11:20:32 am »

I was asking specifically about what was mentioned in the thread in question. The Furman "power conditioners", also known as "rack mounted power strips". I am not interested in the use of UPS's or the multi-thousand dollar protection devices meant to save multi-thousand dollar corporate computer systems.

My curiosity exists because I employ the use of a Monster Power Pro 2500 in the FOH rack, and another one in the amp rack (Crown XTI series) If I were doing something that would endanger my amps, or prevent them from providing their rated output power, I would stop using it immediately. I will state for the record that in the case of my used Monster Pro 2500, it absolutely does something for the $100 I paid for it.

I was lighting a wedding gig with a ten foot steel truss with halogen 38's. I had plugged the dimmer pack directly into the wall and hung it on the truss. I proceeded to climb a ladder to start hanging cans. When I grabbed the dimmer box and the truss (both steel) I was presented with an unfriendly tingle up my arms! So back down the ladder I go, plugged the MP 2500 into the wall, then the dimmer pack into it, and guess what...no more shocks while hanging the cans! So I figure, if it's good enough for my body, it must be good enough for the Crowns. I've read all of the responses to this thread already, and realize these points have been covered. It took me a little longer to catch up and reply. Thanks everyone for your input/responses!

The MP 2500 has a handy built in line fault checker. That and a circuit breaker is its only safety function. Some of the outlets have some type of RF filtering which may reduce some types of line induced buzz.

To consider this thing shock preventing device is dangerous and foolhardy.

Your experience with the dim packs likely had some other factor involved.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 


Page created in 0.092 seconds with 24 queries.