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Author Topic: Just Venting  (Read 4802 times)

David Parker

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2014, 08:37:26 am »

Well, the pitch shift doesn't match a 44.1-48kHz error, so that's out.

Certainly the show should have been paused to correct things, but I think too much blame is being put on Mr. VanHalen. Besides, it's live music. If there weren't train wrecks once in a while it would get boring.
I saw them about 1979 in Houston, and there were no pitch shifts, but it was still a trainwreck!
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Rufus Crowder

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2014, 01:34:44 pm »

Why does it seem todays bands feel the need to use more and more music tracks to the point it is almost "Band Karaoke"? Very frustrating.
I am with you to a certain extent.  I saw Usher at the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo this year.  He had a large band with background vocalists, horn players, etc.  It sounded like a DJ spinning records and Usher singing along with it.  Very frustrating!!!  He had Aaron Spears on drums who is phenomenal but all you saw was his hands flailing and you could not hear what he was playing.  Same with the keyboard players.  Maroon 5 did the same thing, however, their mix was much better.

Nowadays you can get a bunch of good looking people and spin a record, jump around, and get paid!  Milli Vanilli were way before their time!  Ashley Simpson's claim to fame was a major track flub on the Tonight Show years ago. 

I am ok with using them sparingly but definitely not for the entire sound of the band.

Time to put my guitar down and turn into a DJ! 

That Van Halen thing was unbelievable!  How could he not hear that in his ears?  With all of that money, they could have paid a keyboard player for sure!

Unfortunately, 99% of most audiences are not musicians and listen with their eyes! This trend is here to stay and unfortunately starving a lot of really good musicians!
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Ned Ward

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2014, 02:29:42 pm »

This has been around awhile…

The Who used backing tracks on reel to reel 8 track when they took Quadrophenia on the road in '73 and '74 - it was the only way. Same with the synthesizer and organ tracks from Baba O'Reily and Won't Get Fooled Again until 1979 when keyboard player John "Rabbit" Bundrick was added to the roster to play keyboards onstage. Probably when they first started with him, he was still triggering tape for things like the synth part in "Who Are You;" at least by Shea in October 1982 he was playing all the parts on a Memorymoog and other assorted synths.

I don't think anyone who saw them during those times was pissed off that they didn't have 4-5 extra people trying to recreate the synth sounds live…

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Mike Diack

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2014, 04:57:05 pm »

If you work in the "Sound Reinforcement" business, your job is to reinforce the sound, not to judge or complain about what the source is!  Tracks, Bands, DJs, Theatre, Talking Heads, who cares!!!  It's not frustrating at all, you just haven't figured out that live bands with musicians are not the only people that need audio services.
There are legitimate exemptions for gangsta rap, evangelising preachers and bagpipes.
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Rick Powell

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2014, 05:31:40 pm »

Here is our take on it:
* We use backing tracks for about 1/3 of our material.  It wouldn't make sense to hire a full time multi-instrumentalist to cover the occasional parts we need.  With 5 people on stage, we fit into some tight spaces occasionally as it is.
* I will not program a backing vocal ever.  We have 4 vocalists; if we can't cover it with what we've got, we shouldn't be doing it.  Most of our stuff is 2 part with occasional 3 part and rare 4 part.  We are closer to the Rolling Stones than the Eagles with our harmonies, but we choose our material accordingly.
* Pads and parts are great for filling in a song and reducing dropout when the guitarist takes a solo.  I will occasionally program a "lead" keyboard part but not a solo.  For instance, our version of Santana's "Oye Como Va" features a guitar solo where the organ solo would be.  A tracked version of Gregg Rolie's solo with no one on stage would be too cheesy.
* Tracks are great for sound effects.  Bombs, sirens, explosions, etc.  Why hire someone to be an occasional noise maker.
* Tracks tighten a band's awareness and timing, and it takes a special drummer to play to a click with feel and drive.  We have one of thse drummers, so it works. When we first started experimenting with tracks, we flubbed on a regular basis and had to regroup at rehearsals, and occasionally had to shut the track off in mid-song if the band lost its place.  It hasn't happened in a long while and we are a lot tighter in both our track and non-track songs...and I think it is a result of the discipline required to successfully play with a backing track that doesn't "follow the band".
* I saw the Who in 1975, and their use of a recorded track to Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again (with Moon wearing headphones) did not really detract from the performance.  I have had zero negative comments from our use of backing tracks in the couple of years we have been out, probably because we really don't over rely on them.
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Thomas Le

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2014, 09:20:18 am »

Just saw Celtic Woman yesterday at the Hobby Center in Houston. All of the orchestral parts were recorded, the only parts that were live are the piano, perc, guitars, wind instruments, bass, and of course the vocals. It was a great show, but I guess that they hop from city to city every day, well I think it wouldn't be reasonable to drag a whole orchestra... ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #56 on: April 14, 2014, 12:52:39 pm »

Just saw Celtic Woman yesterday at the Hobby Center in Houston. All of the orchestral parts were recorded, the only parts that were live are the piano, perc, guitars, wind instruments, bass, and of course the vocals. It was a great show, but I guess that they hop from city to city every day, well I think it wouldn't be reasonable to drag a whole orchestra... ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The CW Christmas show uses a full orchestra, locally hired.  I presume they have tracks in case the local players aren't up to standards.
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Michael Grimaila

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #57 on: April 14, 2014, 01:04:48 pm »

He wasn't in the wrong key, the tracks were in the wrong key by an amount that sounds like a 44.1kHz-48kHz clocking error.

Yes, Eddie's guitar was at fault.  The keyboards are spot on the correct pitch.  Note that later in the song he seems to correct a bit for the offset.
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #58 on: April 14, 2014, 02:02:05 pm »

I did a show a while ago (I don’t remember the persons name) well known Christian performer. It was just him, mostly on piano and guitar for a few numbers. The last number was on tape it had everything but his vocals. It started with guitar and he told me he would fake playing the guitar as it started. It sounded exactly like his guitar just did live. When the full band/orchestral tracks came in I saw a bunch of people whose heads whipped around and were looking all over the place for where all of the rest of the band was. It sounded just fine but it was really funny to see the audiences reaction. 
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Patrick Tracy

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Re: Just Venting
« Reply #59 on: April 14, 2014, 02:50:21 pm »

Yes, Eddie's guitar was at fault.  The keyboards are spot on the correct pitch.  Note that later in the song he seems to correct a bit for the offset.

I just listened to the original and the synth in that live video is definitely a step or more sharp from the studio recording. Roth is mostly in the original key but seems to get thrown off at times.
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