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[Peter Martin]

In my opinion, A-weighted slow is a much better metering method to use if you're trying to correlate the level with hearing damage (or "it's too loud" annoyance).  C-weighted would work better if you're trying to avoid noise complaints from neighbors.

I've learned that C-weighted is better because it picks up the frequencies of the low end which from I've seen A-weighted does not have   

[Arnold B. Krueger]

I often notice the perception of "too loud" is derived from the transitions from walk-in volume to worship music to pastor speaking, back to worship music. If the sound "jumps" in volume, people's reaction are often negative. Measure your room during walk-in. With people chattering, I am usually at 75 Decibels (A weighted).
When the pastor is speaking I am usually at 72 decibels. During worship music I am asked to keep my A-weighted average volume no louder than 92 Decibels. No small task when sometimes the band stage volume is 85 decibels at my mix position. But if I start the worship music volume well below the place I want it, and roll up slowly, I can obtain an average volume just under 100 decibels without complaint.

What does that mean in terms of mixing? It means at the start of a worship set I may only have vocals and light kick drum prevalent in the house mix, mixing around the ambient volume of the guitars, snare and other drums. As the first worship song progresses, people's ears adjust to the higher volume, and I can bring instruments and average volume up, again slowly, or during natural swells in the music. I also slowly bring the house volume down toward the end of worship music, so announcements or the pastor don't seem too quiet.

One important issue that is raised in the above post is that the target SPLs for spoken word and music are generally two different things. I found that the difference is at least 10 dB, with spoken word understandable to just about everybody when at the lower level.

I generally found that slow averaging c-weighted SPLs that max out in the high 80s or low 90s were appropriate for most music in the church where I served. This was a church with a blended style of worship, which I would expect to the in the middle range of congregational preferences.  In general the more contemporary the worship style, the louder the SPLs that may be desirable. However some traditional instruments such as large pipe organs when enthusiastically played can create huge SPLs throughout the sanctuary.

One of the problems with SPL meter readings is that SPL meters are generally far simpler devices than a good loudness meter, and swo they don't produce the same results. This leaves more up to the judgement of the person setting levels.  It is also true that even a SOTA loudness meter is not the be-all or end-all and still needs to be interpreted with good human judgement.

 IME most churches have at least a few attendees that have various forms of hearing damage that result in Hyperacusis  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperacusis) . This can make them very intolerant of SPL levels that are appropriate and preferable  for almost all other attendees. I have found that it can be nearly impossible to reason with some people with this condition. They can be very strong willed and may try to libel and attack the technical staff, the worship director, the pastor and anybody else who is trying to meet the needs and desires of the congregation at large.

[Jeff Carter]

IME most churches have at least a few attendees that have various forms of hearing damage that result in Hyperacusis  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperacusis) . This can make them very intolerant of SPL levels that are appropriate and preferable  for almost all other attendees. I have found that it can be nearly impossible to reason with some people with this condition. They can be very strong willed and may try to libel and attack the technical staff, the worship director, the pastor and anybody else who is trying to meet the needs and desires of the congregation at large.

Yup. But whatever you do, don't make the mistake of stating (or implying) that it's the person with hyperacusis who in fact has hearing damage, rather than "those deaf guys in the sound booth"...

I've also found that offering earplugs as a solution for sensitive people (when measured SPL is well within reasonable limits), while immensely satisfying, is not particularly well received.

[Arnold B. Krueger]

Yup. But whatever you do, don't make the mistake of stating (or implying) that it's the person with hyperacusis who in fact has hearing damage, rather than "those deaf guys in the sound booth"...

Been there, done that and suffered the consequences. I find it ironic that people who allegedly subscribe to a faith (Christianity) that is based on truth can vigorously and harmfully react to it.

I've also found that offering earplugs as a solution for sensitive people (when measured SPL is well within reasonable limits), while immensely satisfying, is not particularly well received.

I've encountered several people who have allegedly tried earplugs and report no effective relief. This all in an environment where the SPL meter never reaches 90 dB at the seats in which they sit.

[Chris Haywood #984738495]

How loud is too loud? Great question so lets look at it from a spiritual perspective of which I have not read and I read all the posts.. Jesus said "If I be lifted up above the earth I will draw all men unto me" Lifting Jesus above the earth is measured in the total energy of a worship service. Therefore the same question in the spiritual realm would be, how much lifting up Jesus is too much? and when that question can be answered, then so can the "How loud is too loud" for worship service, question can be answered once and for all. Remember this my fellow sound brothers, the devil is always the first one to complain when the energy levels of lifing up Jesus become too much for him to stand. We are in spiritial warfare and we need to blow the devil out of the house literally.. If somebody is demon possessed and present, you will see a reaction when the energy levels increase. I like to call this, lets blow the devil out of the house! Doesn't happen too often, I only seen it once, (demon driven out during worship service) but expect to see this more as the end approaches.. The sound system is the alarm system of the end time. How loud is too loud of an alarm system? The church sound man adjusts the volume for the way he believes God is most pleased. They say you will drive everybody out if its too loud, but I say if you can drive them out, you can drive them in. Make it as loud as absolutely possible while making subtle adjustments for the ears comfort on the way up. If the pastor doesn't trust your judgment, then you have a serious problem, just let someone else do the job and do something else like play an instrument.

[Ray Aberle]

(snip)

Hey man, please head over to your profile and change your Display Name to be your real, full name, per the Rules of Participation with these ProSound Forums.

Thanks!

-Ray

[Chris Haywood #984738495]

ok Ray! Thanks for the information. I will do that now.

[Mac Kerr]

How loud is too loud?

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac

[Chris Haywood #984738495]

 no longer relevant but I can't delete it can I? This was about putting my name in the text field, bla bla bla

[Chris Haywood #984738495]

ok guys! I fixed it! Sorry about that. I have a small problem and that is, I don't normally read the directions until after I have a problem. Im pretty sure if we can't relate on any level, we can relate on this one. But I could be wrong, either way, thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

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