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Author Topic: Setting up a system with Driverack PA +  (Read 1733 times)

Steve.Oldridge

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Re: Setting up a system with Driverack PA +
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2014, 10:51:42 am »

This is pretty much what I was going to reply as well except that the DRPA+ can't do 3-way stereo plus a sub (2 X 5).  I don't think Steve was implying that it does but it might confusing to see that config mentioned in this conversation.

Tom on my DRPA (not a +), 2x5 = 2-way stereo + sub  that's L+R Highs OUT (2), L+R Mids OUT (2), SUB OUT (1).
My system is tri-amped  :)
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 10:57:20 am by Steve.Oldridge »
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Tom Burgess

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Re: Setting up a system with Driverack PA +
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2014, 11:22:17 am »

Tom on my DRPA (not a +), 2x5 = 2-way stereo + sub  that's L+R Highs OUT (2), L+R Mids OUT (2), SUB OUT (1).
My system is tri-amped  :)
Well, duh.  Can I blame this on lack of coffee?  No wait, it was WAY too late in the day to pull that one off... ???
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If the band sounds great, it's because the band IS great, if the band sound like crap, it's the soundman's fault.

Opinions expressed by me on this forum are my own and not necessarily that of the company for which I work.

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Steve.Oldridge

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Re: Setting up a system with Driverack PA +
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2014, 11:38:45 am »

Well, duh.  Can I blame this on lack of coffee?  No wait, it was WAY too late in the day to pull that one off... ???

All is forgiven.. LOL.  But you did have me scratching my head on what I wrote..  :-[
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Steve.Oldridge

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Re: Setting up a system with Driverack PA +
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2014, 11:27:08 am »

TO hijack this thread, but on topic..

What are folks recommendations around RTA'ing the "room" with the DRPA for every gig??
I'm not doing it, but am playing in a band where I don't own or run the PA and the owner/band leader has been doing it since some guy at GC told him to.

I have my opinions, but would like to get some feedback from the pro's on here..
TIA..
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Tom Burgess

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Re: Setting up a system with Driverack PA +
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2014, 11:46:05 am »

TO hijack this thread, but on topic..

What are folks recommendations around RTA'ing the "room" with the DRPA for every gig??
I'm not doing it, but am playing in a band where I don't own or run the PA and the owner/band leader has been doing it since some guy at GC told him to.

I have my opinions, but would like to get some feedback from the pro's on here..
TIA..
I use a baseline that I've developed for whichever rig I'm using and if I have time and the ability to do so without causing a bunch of heartache for the client or venue then sure, why not?  Otherwise, unless I'm in a REALLY nasty environment, nope.  Granted, I'm doing small gigs but I've found that once I get a config sorted and tweaked I rarely pink a room.
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If the band sounds great, it's because the band IS great, if the band sound like crap, it's the soundman's fault.

Opinions expressed by me on this forum are my own and not necessarily that of the company for which I work.

http://www.gilliammusic.com - Full line retailer featuring musical instruments, sound systems, and print music.  Items range from Hohner kazoos to Steinway pianos.  (How's that for a selection? :) )

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Setting up a system with Driverack PA +
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2014, 12:48:06 pm »

TO hijack this thread, but on topic..

What are folks recommendations around RTA'ing the "room" with the DRPA for every gig??
I'm not doing it, but am playing in a band where I don't own or run the PA and the owner/band leader has been doing it since some guy at GC told him to.

I have my opinions, but would like to get some feedback from the pro's on here..
TIA..

An RTA can be used as a valuable tool so long as the user understands what it does not show, and how those factors influence what is seen on the RTA.  Technique and experience are paramount.

That is probably not the case here.

Here's the deal:  once a system's individual components are aligned to create a cohesive system, the only thing left is the ACOUSTIC INTERFACE between that system and the room.  Our tools to help are basically aiming of speakers and limited electrical changes via EQ.  You can't "EQ the room" without a CAT D9 EQ (search for Cat D9).  If there are ugly things happening as seen on the RTA, just move the mic a few feet and it will change... maybe a prettier picture, maybe uglier, maybe just different... which, if any, is correct?

I think the system in question should be set up outdoors, away from reflective structures (50' or more would be good) and do a "ground plane" measurement.  When the system is moved indoors, there will probably be more LF because of boundary loading and possibly cabin gain.  But after this, there shouldn't be a need to use the RTA at setup.

The RTA can still be useful in ringing out monitors and other stuff because EQ is probably the only tool available to tame them in situ... but for the PA, there is more benefit from moving speakers around than trying to fix an acoustic problem with an electronic device.
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Setting up a system with Driverack PA +
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2014, 01:20:12 pm »

You can't "EQ the room" without a CAT D9 EQ (search for Cat D9). 

What kind of rack do you use for that D9?  Can you lift it by yourself after it's racked?
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Steve.Oldridge

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Re: Setting up a system with Driverack PA +
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2014, 05:15:23 pm »

I think the system in question should be set up outdoors, away from reflective structures (50' or more would be good) and do a "ground plane" measurement.  When the system is moved indoors, there will probably be more LF because of boundary loading and possibly cabin gain.  But after this, there shouldn't be a need to use the RTA at setup.

Crud.. I wrote a long reply to this, somehow refreshed the page and I lost it.. grrrr.

Anyway.. it said that's what I had done with my 3-way system.  Gain staged, then on the DRPA set up xover points, balanced out gain levels for sub, mids, highs, set up delay between subs/tops (9ms on that system) then set limiters. NO EQ, NO AFE's on DRPA. Saved the settings..   Never pinked a room with that system in 3 yrs. It always sounded great.

My concern here is that this PA system get's pinked BEFORE EVERY gig, which causes the board EQ to be invalidated/off each time. This band mixes from stage and plays mostly double headers - Fri/Sat at same venue.  Case in point.. drummer was running late last Fri, so we waited on him to get set up and 15min before start time we go to do a quick sound check.  No sound FOH.  After much running around, turns out the mute buttons on the PA+ MID/HIGH outs had been tripped "ON". Guessing that happened during the pinking process somewhere along the way. This was discovered while testing amp outputs, speaker cables and running pink noise from the PA+. Ended up with EQ/AFE's being flat/off, and PA sounded great. I show up Sat night and the PA doesn't sound quite as "tight". Turns out he arrived before every one and pinked the room.  Music is never run thru this system to test the balance. I used a couple of tracks that I knew well, and always ran thru before the gig to ensure it was sounding good.

I'm not sure how to show him how much extra work he's having to do before each gig. After each pink, he's ends up re-EQing every channel to offset PA+ EQ changes for the room. And... settings are not being saved for each venue and recalled.  Thoughts on how best to approach the topic.. it IS his PA, and he IS the band leader.
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