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Author Topic: Funktion One Vero (was "But it's not a line array.....")  (Read 7956 times)

Steve M Smith

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2014, 08:21:26 am »

This is why line arrays won. Because they are far more practical than big point source systems. Its that simple. They didnt have to sound better to win, because actually, as long as they sound OK, people buy them for all the other business reasons that have nothing to do with sound quality.

As with most things today, convenience wins out over quality.

That's why MP3 files are more popular than CDs or vinyl, digital imaging is more popular than film, etc, etc.


Steve.
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Jim McKeveny

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2014, 08:27:52 am »

convenience wins out over quality.


Let us not conflate the concepts of "convenience" and "efficiency".

People will pay a premium for convenience.
Efficiency (should) bring costs down so more people will pay.

The depth of the VERO boxes suggests that Tony A. has some arrangement of proprietary waveguides in there that dip into the mid frequencies.

In the earliest days of some manufacturers kneejerk response to V-DOSC, we saw a share of clueless horn and quasi-horn loaded vertically arrayed cabinets hit the market, with no real grasp of the critical driver spacing an effective LA deployment requires. I'd love to see these with grilles off!


« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 08:41:26 am by Jim McKeveny »
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Thomas Le

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2014, 09:04:13 am »


Those springback handles will rattle someday, probably sooner than later.

It's like looking a 1990's F1 car:  impressive in the flesh, great for its day, but alot has changed performance-wise since.

Tony is no doubt charging premium cash for rather pedestrian tech. A cult-ish thing...like BOSE?!

Let's not forget that Bose jumped on the bandwagon with their own line array system! It's on their "Pro" website.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Jim McKeveny

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2014, 09:28:35 am »

Let's not forget that Bose jumped on the bandwagon with their own line array system! It's on their "Pro" website.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The worst,worst,worst system I ever had to endure was a "consultant spec'd" BOSE rig in a venue in Williamsport, PA. It was a collection or their array boxes, and they appeared to be in appropriate positions (more or less).

My first clue was during advance, when the house guy offered that "No one likes our system". I had never really heard that before.

I learned that Jerry Seinfeld - one guy with one mic - previously did a walk around preshow and was considering cancelling the date over the bad sound..... I had an orchestra backing a Beatles band! HELP! indeed.

There was simply no output. Give me one clear voice and I can fake my way through a show. Nothing. I walked and checked the room. Everything was on and operating ("normally" as house tech informed me). Something was coming out of the speakers, just not much.

I seriously could have done a better show with almost anything else: JBL Eons on sticks, Perkins w/1" horn, megaphones, anything. I still am baffled by the "Kings New Clothes" attitude I got. After all, it was consultant spec'd and it was BOSE!!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 09:34:48 am by Jim McKeveny »
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2014, 10:16:12 am »

As with most things today, convenience wins out over quality.

That's why MP3 files are more popular than CDs or vinyl, digital imaging is more popular than film, etc, etc.


Steve.

I see your point, but I'm not sure its really as much of a tradeoff as people think.

Clearly fast food is so prevalent because, exactly as you say, convenience beats quality. Fast food is 'less good' than proper food in lots of ways, including its ability to provide nourishment.

However, when it comes to music and live shows, there are a couple of truths:
  • I have never been to a medium to high budget live show where the PA was the limiting factor in sound quality. Thats not to say that we can't look at systems and make statements about the merits of different approaches, but in my opinion, in most cases changing the PA wont actually make a show sound better
  • Again, whether a show is 'good' or not, has a lot less to do with technical sound quality than sometimes we sound engineers would like to believe. Its about the experience at the end of the day. Sound quality is part of that, but only part.
  • Most people can't tell the difference between an iTunes store MP3 and a Wav. Either because they don't notice, or because their listening equipment doesn't allow them to. So has any actual quality been lost by going to MP3s? I'd argue not. People listen to, and have access to, more music today than ever before in history. Surely thats the point of selling music: for people to listen to it..
  • Lots of old recordings and vinyls sound technically poor, but we love them. Why? Because we are listening to the content, not the audio quality.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2014, 11:33:58 am »

This is why line arrays won. Because they are far more practical than big point source systems. Its that simple. They didnt have to sound better to win, because actually, as long as they sound OK, people buy them for all the other business reasons that have nothing to do with sound quality.

Yes, but they also did sound better. Today with many more entrants into the field there are plenty of mediocre LA systems, but in the beginning there was V-DOSC, and nothing else in use at the time sounded as good.

Mac
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James Wright

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2014, 01:21:03 pm »

Lisa: Dad, you can't judge a place you've never been to.
Bart: Yeah, that's what people do in Russia.
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Luke Geis

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2014, 03:32:26 pm »

I used to be a big fan of the LA concept and performance. Until many years of hearing bad sounding LA systems from many manufacturers. In many cases the things I disliked were from bad setup and deployment and other parts inherent to the LA itself. In the end I am more a fan of point source systems. I find point source to be a better solution. In every case in which I have setup, or been in the presence of a PS system, it has sounded better and was subject to much less of the acoustical problems that are exposed by LA systems that are even nearly 100% properly set up.

I can live with the inverse square laws rules in a PS system. I would rather the PA sound right over a small area than sound wrong over a large area. I am interested in knowing more about this F1 system and if it is in fact a scaled horn system. I get the feeling it's not?
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I don't understand how you can't hear your self

Ray Aberle

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2014, 04:58:30 pm »

I used to be a big fan of the LA concept and performance. Until many years of hearing bad sounding LA systems from many manufacturers. In many cases the things I disliked were from bad setup and deployment and other parts inherent to the LA itself. In the end I am more a fan of point source systems. I find point source to be a better solution. In every case in which I have setup, or been in the presence of a PS system, it has sounded better and was subject to much less of the acoustical problems that are exposed by LA systems that are even nearly 100% properly set up.

I can live with the inverse square laws rules in a PS system. I would rather the PA sound right over a small area than sound wrong over a large area. I am interested in knowing more about this F1 system and if it is in fact a scaled horn system. I get the feeling it's not?
But you have to remember, it's not a matter of line array versus point source. What matters is... wait for it...

What is the best tool for the job?

Now, of course there's going to be the case of small-operator who just has their trap rig, and that's it... but don't discount the advantages of a line array system, especially when it comes to delivering a more even coverage over a larger area just because some idiots either deployed the previous systems you have heard wrong, or they didn't bring enough Rig For The Gig.

-Ray
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Doug Fowler

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Re: But it's not a line array.....
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2014, 07:21:39 pm »

I am interested in knowing more about this F1 system and if it is in fact a scaled horn system. I get the feeling it's not?

The scaled horn system was done 15 years ago: KF760.

Here is another example of a perfectly good system with a less than stellar reputation because of an unlocked crossover.  Been there, got the T-shirt.
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"It's got electrolytes.  It's got what plants crave."
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