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Author Topic: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip  (Read 1342 times)

chris broadway

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Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« on: March 26, 2014, 09:42:38 am »

I'm assuming someone with 'electrical' knowledge will be able to answer this question.  I have three amps.  One goes to a single house speaker, one goes to two house speakers (because of existing wiring we have these daisy chained), and one going to a monitor.  I have always noticed that the amp with the daisy chained speakers showed a higer level than the other house speaker.  Occasionally it would even clip while the other amp level was very low.  This past weekend I wanted to daisy chain a monitor off the one monitor running off a dedicated amp.  Immediately I noticed this amp now was clipping.  I unplugged the daisy chained monitor and the issue went away.  This leads me to believe that a daisy chained speaker has more draw on the amp and doubles the load and level.  Can anyone with an electrical background explain this to me?
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Taylor Hall

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Re: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2014, 09:53:21 am »

What model(s) are the amp(s) in question? What models are the speakers in question?

Without knowing the specs of either we can't really give you a definitive answer.

However, what you may be doing by "daisy chaining" the speakers is putting a load on the amp outside of what it can handle. While it's common practice to do this (the daisy chaining, not overloading) it's very important to make sure that the resulting final load is within your amp's specs. If your amp is only rated to 4 ohms and you put a 2ohm load to it, it won't be happy and could cause damage to your rig. Also, using the existing wiring might be causing you issues as well if you haven't verified that there's nothing else on the circuit.

Some more details on your equipment will go a long way, so start there.
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chris broadway

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Re: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2014, 09:56:33 am »

Crown CTS 600 amps
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chris broadway

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Re: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2014, 09:58:44 am »

Forgot to add the house speakers are EV-122S94.  I cannot remember the monitor model.
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Luke Robinson

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Re: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2014, 10:00:15 am »

It would help to know the models of the amps, and speakers that you are using. Or at least the resistance (ohm rating) of each speaker that is in the chain. Also are all of the amps being fed the same signal or are they from different feeds?

Adding speakers reduces the resistance on the amp witch does let more power through on most amp models. If you are looking for a lengthy technical description look up Ohms law. The short description is that if you connect two speakers that are 8 ohms to one amp channel your total resistance is 4 ohms. Two at 4 ohms would be 2 ohms. The math gets a little more complex with 3 speakers or two speakers of different resistance.

HOWEVER

The lights on the front of the amps usually represent the input signal coming into the amp and as far as I know are not affected but the load that you are putting on the output.

Again if you let us in on the make and model of the equipment you are using it might shed some light on the situation.

Luke
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Luke Robinson

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Re: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2014, 10:13:25 am »

Forgot to add the house speakers are EV-122S94.  I cannot remember the monitor model.

The EV speakers are 8 ohms, and look like they want between 500 and 1000 watts to run at peak performance. The CTS600 is not getting near that. When you put 3 together you are running at a 2.6 ohm load witch in the case of this crown amp starts to decrease its output power. So it is likely that you are turning the system up to compensate.

I would recommend more power if you can afford to do it.

as far as the lights on the front of the amp I am not that experienced with these particular crown amps and how their meters read so hopefully someone else here may be able to shed some light on the situation.

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chris broadway

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Re: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2014, 10:27:37 am »

It would help to know the models of the amps, and speakers that you are using. Or at least the resistance (ohm rating) of each speaker that is in the chain. Also are all of the amps being fed the same signal or are they from different feeds?

Adding speakers reduces the resistance on the amp witch does let more power through on most amp models. If you are looking for a lengthy technical description look up Ohms law. The short description is that if you connect two speakers that are 8 ohms to one amp channel your total resistance is 4 ohms. Two at 4 ohms would be 2 ohms. The math gets a little more complex with 3 speakers or two speakers of different resistance.

HOWEVER

The lights on the front of the amps usually represent the input signal coming into the amp and as far as I know are not affected but the load that you are putting on the output.

Again if you let us in on the make and model of the equipment you are using it might shed some light on the situation.

Luke

So it looks like I need to learn 'ohms' and what they are.  thanks for the ohms law reference.  So without having looked at ohms law yet, here is my guess.  If I have two amps set at the same output level, and one speaker plugged into each amp, theoretically I should get the same output and visually see this on the LED level indicator.  Once I add a like speaker in a daisy chain fashion to one of the existing speakers, the resistance is less causing a higher output (hotter signal) from the amp? Is this a high level understanding for a lay person?
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2014, 10:32:06 am »

The EV speakers are 8 ohms, and look like they want between 500 and 1000 watts to run at peak performance. The CTS600 is not getting near that. When you put 3 together you are running at a 2.6 ohm load witch in the case of this crown amp starts to decrease its output power. So it is likely that you are turning the system up to compensate.

I would recommend more power if you can afford to do it.

as far as the lights on the front of the amp I am not that experienced with these particular crown amps and how their meters read so hopefully someone else here may be able to shed some light on the situation.

Just plugging another speaker in should NOT, by itself, make the clip lights come on.  Performance of the speaker/amp combination is another matter.

I'm suspecting a shorted speaker cable or a cable that is wired "funny."
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chris broadway

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Re: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2014, 10:48:09 am »

Just plugging another speaker in should NOT, by itself, make the clip lights come on.  Performance of the speaker/amp combination is another matter.

I'm suspecting a shorted speaker cable or a cable that is wired "funny."

But this behavior was seen over two different amps and two different speakers.  It could not be a cable or speaker issue. 
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dick rees

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Re: Daisy chain speakers causing Amp clip
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2014, 10:49:47 am »

But this behavior was seen over two different amps and two different speakers.  It could not be a cable or speaker issue.

Think again.
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