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Author Topic: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?  (Read 39472 times)

Dan Mortensen

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #80 on: March 20, 2014, 10:29:39 pm »

Yes all your posts have made that perfectly clear - but what you seemed to be saying is that
if you loaded a new scene and the console went down before 2 minutes the previous scenes was loaded
- and this is not the case it is last state saved - which you now seem to accept - and this is what made me reply to your assumptions as they appeared to me to be wrong and misleading.

The bolded part is exactly what I was saying, and now I'm going to say something slightly different based on going back to the console and trying it again and again and getting different results.

First I loaded a show with 6 scenes and no cues (a 1.15 show).

Loading Scene 1 and letting it sit for 4 minutes and then loading the other scenes one after the other, letting each sit for 30 seconds , ending at scene 6 and rebooting. After, Scene 6 was on the console. This is in Cue preference, but changing scenes in the Scene tab using the Scenes buttons on the console. No confirmation for go, it goes as soon as you press "GO" (when not in the home or config screens). This seems to confirm your thesis and says I was mistaken.

After that, I created some Cues in the Cue screen, with Cue 1 being Scene 1, 2 is Scene 2, etc. From then on, whether in the Cue preference or the Scene preference, starting at Cue 1 Scene 1, letting it sit, then going up to 6 with little time on each Cue and then powering down, what came up was some kind of composite Cue/scene that had elements of several Scenes but was not any particular one.

While typing that, I started to wonder if I missed something, and so went back, reloaded that show, and ran through it again. No Cues, in Scene preference, let Scene 1 load and sit for 4 minutes, went to Scene 2, sit for 30 seconds, same for 3, 4, and 5. Loaded 6, sit for 10 seconds, powered down, sit for about 30 seconds console off. Power up, see some kind of amalgamated scene that SAID Scene 6 but clearly wasn't, as fader positions jumped into place upon reaching console active state. Loaded Scene 6 and labels and fader positions dramatically changed from the reboot status.

Don't know what's going on, but it's not coming back as even a recognizable Scene under those admittedly odd conditions (30 sec between scene changes).

I believe that if you let each Scene (or at least the last scene, scene 5 in this case) sit for 2 minutes after loading without doing any saves (scenes 2-5, in my scenario above), and then load another scene (scene 6) and the power goes down before 2 minutes have elapsed, then when the console reboots it will be in the previous scene (scene 5) and not the scene that was active when the power went down (scene 6), which I think is what you sort of wrote above that I said.


- and this is not the case it is last state saved 


I also believe you are being sloppy by not differentiating between manual saves and auto-saves, which are two different things. The effect may be the same from each, but the way they are achieved is notably different.

I don't know if they are different in terms of what happens in case of an unplanned reboot, but I don't think it's relevant as few people will happen to have manually saved one second before an unplanned reboot. They are then relying on the last auto-save, which makes it important when that auto-saving occurs, and how many changes have happened in the two minutes since the last auto-save.

It's entirely possible I'm totally missing something, but I'm reporting what I see.

Dan
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 10:36:13 pm by Dan Mortensen »
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Craig Hamilton

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #81 on: March 20, 2014, 11:27:16 pm »

It has been stated how excellent the memory capability of the Yamaha consoles is in terms of remembering active state and previous state for the undo, and someone else pointed out at what cost difference this is. I would like to know if it is definitive that every other digital console manufacturer, especially at the x32 price level, is as perfect as the Yamaha consoles for instant memory save or if maybe the x32 is not the only console that has to compromise this function because of the price point. Im thinking mackie and qu16 and the new Qsc.
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Brian Wynn

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #82 on: March 21, 2014, 12:06:56 am »

Doing this repeatedly in 2.02 always results in the console going back to your step #2.

First I have to say "look at the shit storm I started" lol.  Version 1.15 operated just fine when the desk was powered down and back on.  It doesn't now.  They screwed it up they should fix it end of story.
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #83 on: March 21, 2014, 02:29:07 am »

I would like to know if it is definitive that every other digital console manufacturer, especially at the x32 price level, is as perfect as the Yamaha consoles for instant memory save or if maybe the x32 is not the only console that has to compromise this function because of the price point. Im thinking mackie and qu16 and the new Qsc.

Good point. Others will have to provide the answers, though.
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #84 on: March 21, 2014, 08:41:59 am »

Taking the challenge:

GLD112: Slide a fader, immediately pull the power plug, move the fader back, plug the GLD back in: oops. doesn't restore the fader position.

GLD112: Slide a fader, wait 5 minutes, pull plug, reboot: State is properly saved.

Looks like the GLD behavior is currently similar to the X32.  I didn't run multiple tests to figure out if it is a 2 minute save time,...  It could be saving every X minutes 'since last boot', so the behavior would be erratic depending on when you yanked the power.

If you do a proper 'soft power down' the GLD does save the state immediately, but not if you yank the power cord.

I'm with the others, the preferred behavior is to be able to yank the power and plug it back in and you will be at the same place before you yanked the power.

+1 for Yamaha, but I don't think I'll trade in my GLD, or my X32rack for my old 01V96 based on this issue.  The x32 Rack works perfectly in my rehearsal space for my purposes.
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Chuck Simon

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #85 on: March 21, 2014, 11:18:24 am »

Good point. Others will have to provide the answers, though.

I know that the Studio Live and Soundcraft Expression retain their settings when re-booted.  I thought all boards did.
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Nick Davis

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #86 on: March 21, 2014, 11:56:10 am »

I know that the Studio Live and Soundcraft Expression retain their settings when re-booted.  I thought all boards did.

Well the x32 does as well provided you power it down correctly - either wait for 1 - 2 minutes - ( I always believed it was 1) or do a safe shutdown which saves the state. Plus do they if you change a state & then immediately pull out the plug?

Dan - I just had a play - and it seems to me it is very difficult to determine when the save of the state occurs - and at no point did I wait up to 2 minutes between cycles & sometimes it reverted exactly and sometimes to the prior state saved.

The obvious thing is as far as possible to mitigate against power outages (or UPS failure) - but if there is an outage then the important thing is to be able to check where the desk is restored to - I always boot with safe main levels so that would help a bit.

Certainly a useful enhancement would be to do state save in conjunction with a scene load as I agree having the console re-boot and the previous scene you were on before the outage coming up as being active (because you had this scene "active" when the last state was saved) could be confusing - and to be honest this had never occurred to me.

More frequent state saves might be useful - (but is it up to two minutes between or programmed as every two minutes?) - but even if it were 10 seconds you could still arguably miss the window
-or as I suggested appending individual changes to the major state saved as they happen - not sure how the change may be determined in some instances -eg fader moves at what point in moving it is the changed state saved.

Anyway something to put in the "try to remember" procedure log.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2014, 11:59:40 am by Nick Davis »
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #87 on: March 21, 2014, 01:29:15 pm »


More frequent state saves might be useful - (but is it up to two minutes between or programmed as every two minutes?)

I think it's been said by someone higher up than us that it's up to 2 minutes.

Glad to hear that you are entertaining the possibility that this could be a problem under a certain combination of circumstances for which the probability at any random time is approaching but greater than zero, while at a specific and real moment in the future is 100%.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #88 on: March 21, 2014, 01:32:29 pm »

I think it's been said by someone higher up than us that it's up to 2 minutes.

Glad to hear that you are entertaining the possibility that this could be a problem under a certain combination of circumstances for which the probability at any random time is approaching but greater than zero, while at a specific and real moment in the future is 100%.

I've decided my Iggy Bin needed more names (not yours, Dan)...  That should greatly collapse my reading time on this thread.
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: X32 2.02 Firmware..... Likes and issues?
« Reply #89 on: March 21, 2014, 03:10:15 pm »

I've decided my Iggy Bin needed more names (not yours, Dan)... 

I wouldn't be offended or have even known; if you had, you would have joined a popular group since I'm widely ignored on a variety of subjects.
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