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Author Topic: splitting stereo insert cable?  (Read 9584 times)

Jon Ness

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splitting stereo insert cable?
« on: March 13, 2014, 01:28:57 PM »

Hello.  Newb here  :o
I have a "can I do this?" question for someone, anyone! I have a Band that plays clubs, and I am using a Carvin 12 channel Mixer with four internal power amps. 1 & 2 are L-R Mains, 3 & 4 are separate Monitor signals. There are four female insert jacks above the corresponding Speaker outputs, one for each of the four Amps. I have limited space in my rack, and a limited budget. I have a dual 31 band EQ that I would really like to employ on both Monitors and Mains if possible. I am interested in using ch 1 for Both L-R Mains, and ch 2 for both Monitor mixes. If I connect the send and return ends of the Insert Cables to the Dual EQ, I come up with two TRS Male plugs that each need to go to two places. Can I split the TRS signal into two separate TRS signals which are identical, effectively allowing me to use one channel of the EQ to be applied to two amp insert points? I was thinking of wiring a special cable to do this, using a Stereo 1/4" Female end, splitting the TRS signal into two Male TRS plugs. Is this possible, and are there any phase or ground issues in wiring something this way? Or have I confused everyone so much that they don't want to hear it anymore? haha. sorry :-[
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Mac Kerr

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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2014, 02:23:55 PM »

Hello.  Newb here  :o

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
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Jon Ness

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oops my apologies
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2014, 02:38:53 PM »

Thank you for moving my post and redundantly informing me of my gross negligence. dangit. so much for good first impressions. Really sorry here, I am sure that happens a lot. I was just so excited to find this place, and am really looking forward to the wealth of knowledge to be gained here. Been playing in bands for 27 years, and running sound for many of them. Sorry to be in such a dang hurry that I did not read appropriate posting and forum etiquette. This post will self destruct in 30 seconds. Or can be deleted, if necessary. Again, my honest apologies. I do not have immediate notice for emails, and don't get a chance to check it readily, so I am sorry if I am slow at responding, I am probably in the other building working on Machines or CNC or whatever I'm busy with.
*still glad to be here*
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Ray Aberle

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Re: oops my apologies
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2014, 02:48:22 PM »

Thank you for moving my post and redundantly informing me of my gross negligence. dangit. so much for good first impressions. Really sorry here, I am sure that happens a lot. I was just so excited to find this place, and am really looking forward to the wealth of knowledge to be gained here. Been playing in bands for 27 years, and running sound for many of them. Sorry to be in such a dang hurry that I did not read appropriate posting and forum etiquette. This post will self destruct in 30 seconds. Or can be deleted, if necessary. Again, my honest apologies. I do not have immediate notice for emails, and don't get a chance to check it readily, so I am sorry if I am slow at responding, I am probably in the other building working on Machines or CNC or whatever I'm busy with.
*still glad to be here*
Jon, no worries! It is common for people to neglect to make that change right off the bat. We ask for real names here as there's no "hiding" in pro audio. Stand behind what you say, and be proud of it-- have an open mind, use the search function then ask questions, and know that you may need a thick skin at times. :) However, if you post questions just looking for validation of something you have already decided in your mind, you won't have fun here!!

Anyways, with your (now locked) question... punch your two channels of EQ onto your monitor channels. Don't worry about the mains for now, until you can get another EQ. Trying to 'group' your monitors into one insert means that something that might be affecting one mix isn't present in the other mix, but your 'grouping' means you're applying the same medicine to both wounds, even though their symptoms are different! That could easily cause a cascade effect of more issues to deal with.

-Ray
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Kelcema Audio
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Jon Ness

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Re: oops my apologies
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2014, 03:04:40 PM »

Jon, no worries! It is common for people to neglect to make that change right off the bat. We ask for real names here as there's no "hiding" in pro audio. Stand behind what you say, and be proud of it-- have an open mind, use the search function then ask questions, and know that you may need a thick skin at times. :) However, if you post questions just looking for validation of something you have already decided in your mind, you won't have fun here!!

Anyways, with your (now locked) question... punch your two channels of EQ onto your monitor channels. Don't worry about the mains for now, until you can get another EQ. Trying to 'group' your monitors into one insert means that something that might be affecting one mix isn't present in the other mix, but your 'grouping' means you're applying the same medicine to both wounds, even though their symptoms are different! That could easily cause a cascade effect of more issues to deal with.

-Ray
Thank you Ray. I am currently using two dual 31 band EQ's and four insert cables. I need the EQ's on the Mains because the Cabs are not the greatest, and I can get much better presence with the right EQ settings. I need EQ on my monitors to boost the heard frequencies, if that makes sense, because my bassist needs more vocal monitor. All 4 of my monitors are the same, and the EQ settings are the same, I just have 1 mix normal, and his mix with him boosted  :)
The reason I need to simplify, is basically a space issue. I don't have room in my rack for two dual 31 band EQ's, and the settings are identical, so it seems redundant. I need the space more than the extra EQ. I understand it may not be ideal, but am just curious if you can get away with doubling the TRS signals. Thanks for the communication.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: splitting stereo insert cable?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2014, 03:14:50 PM »

Unless you have a need to run stereo, you can run left into one eq then connect its output to both the left and right amp.

Unfortunately this doesn't save any space unless you do the same with the monitors.  i.e. one send into one eq then out to two amps.

I need EQ on my monitors to boost the heard frequencies, if that makes sense

Not really.  It's more usual to use a graphic to notch out troublesome frequencies which can lead to feedback.  When there is a resonance due to the combination of room and speaker response, the graphic is use to flatten out the response.


Steve.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 03:18:45 PM by Steve M Smith »
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Geoff Doane

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Re: oops my apologies
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2014, 03:16:27 PM »


The reason I need to simplify, is basically a space issue. I don't have room in my rack for two dual 31 band EQ's, and the settings are identical, so it seems redundant. I need the space more than the extra EQ. I understand it may not be ideal, but am just curious if you can get away with doubling the TRS signals. Thanks for the communication.

There is no way to get two independent channels out of a mono EQ, or 4 channels out of a stereo one.

The best I can suggest is a stereo EQ that only has one set of sliders, but they control both channels.  Rane makes (made?) one in the Mojo series IIRC, and BearRinger has a digital stereo graphic that only has one set of sliders.  However, the BearRinger is 2 spaces to start with, so not exactly compact, and I think the Rane was only 15 bands, so another compromise there.

GTD
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Ray Aberle

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Re: splitting stereo insert cable?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2014, 03:21:13 PM »

Unless you have a need to run stereo, you can run left into one eq then connect its output to both the left and right amp.

Unfortunately this doesn't save any space unless you do the same with the monitors.  i.e. one send into one eq then out to two amps.


Steve.
Without pulling a spec of the powered mixer he is using, it sounds like there's four inserts for -- 1ea L and R mains, 1 ea L and R aux sends. So, he's only working with one insert per channel, instead of being able to mono from the mixer and split to multiple amps.

Basically, he would like to use a custom cable to insert EQ into two spots at the same time. So one channel of the EQ is inserting into LR Mains, and the other channel is inserting into the two aux sends. Sounds like they do not have to be independent.

Of course, Jon, the configuration you are looking for also means you will no longer be able to EQ Aux2 for the extra-loud person separately......

To be candid, I would just get another small rack with enough room for AC, a patch panel, and your two EQs mounted in it.

-Ray
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Steve M Smith

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Re: splitting stereo insert cable?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2014, 03:23:19 PM »

Without pulling a spec of the powered mixer he is using, it sounds like there's four inserts for -- 1ea L and R mains, 1 ea L and R aux sends. So, he's only working with one insert per channel, instead of being able to mono from the mixer and split to multiple amps.

Ah yes, it would require some custom cables to be made.


Steve.
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Samuel Rees

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Re: splitting stereo insert cable?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2014, 03:31:45 PM »

You definitely can't get 2 channels of EQ out of one channel of EQ, ever. You are pointing out that the EQ may be the same on both sides - but you are forgetting that the audio that flows through them isn't!
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: splitting stereo insert cable?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2014, 03:31:45 PM »


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