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Author Topic: Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement  (Read 2405 times)

Samuel Rees

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Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« on: March 06, 2014, 06:18:59 pm »

Slight swerve - but I don't know what Avid is going to do long term about Waves and their new DSP. AAX DSP is not supported by waves - so no Waves on the S3L (or their studio HDX cards). Hard to imagine a new line of avid desks with no waves. Weird.
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2014, 03:33:04 am »

Slight swerve - but I don't know what Avid is going to do long term about Waves and their new DSP. AAX DSP is not supported by waves - so no Waves on the S3L (or their studio HDX cards). Hard to imagine a new line of avid desks with no waves. Weird.

Dont worry, when Digigrid flops, and current Venue / Protools TDM is gone for good, they'll come crawling back... :)
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Ned Ward

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Re: Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2014, 02:56:34 pm »

Slight swerve - but I don't know what Avid is going to do long term about Waves and their new DSP. AAX DSP is not supported by waves - so no Waves on the S3L (or their studio HDX cards). Hard to imagine a new line of avid desks with no waves. Weird.


I'm running 11 at home and enjoying that McDSP, Sonnox, Softube, SoundToys and others are making better plugins that have been updated in the past 10 years. Got off the Waves merry-go-round last fall and glad I did. I think you'll find that a lot of people in DSP aren't missing Waves one bitů If you haven't demo'd the MCDSP, it's worth the free download to try them out.
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Josh Hana

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Re: Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2014, 05:00:12 pm »

Has Waves stated that they will not support AAX at any point in the future, or is it just that they don't support it right now?

I'd suspect that we might see something from Waves around the time Avid launches their next live system. Hard to believe with the popularity of Waves on VENUE that they would give that up for the next generation
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2014, 06:55:19 pm »

Has Waves stated that they will not support AAX at any point in the future, or is it just that they don't support it right now?


Waves fully supports native AAX, in both 32 and 64 bit on both Windows and Mac as of the release of Version 9 of their plug ins.


What they do not support is DSP AAX on anything other than their own Soundgrid hardware. So for those users running TDM, HD or HDx systems, they are limited to only being able to run Waves plug ins as native format or on their Soundgrid.
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Justice C. Bigler

Samuel Rees

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Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2014, 09:09:45 pm »

Exactly. They used to use avid's hardware when they had nothing to sell - why would they spend money to to dev for a DSP that you buy from someone else? I wonder if they will somehow do some kinda of avid "live only" AAX DSP support. Wild speculation of course.
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2014, 09:24:46 am »

What they do not support is DSP AAX on anything other than their own Soundgrid hardware.

Are Soundgrid servers in fact not just TDM?

I thought the whole AAX DSP thing was because you have to pay Avid for a license to make AAX DSP plugins, but you can't make your own AAX DSP hardware, so you basically eat all these development costs to only sell to HDX users. Waves use TDM themselves in their soundgrid products, so developing for TDM makes sense...

Ultimately, this is a format battle. Waves are banking on digigrid taking over some of the HDX market, and so to try and achieve that, they are making sure digigrid has a monopoly on DSP accelerated waves plugins.

When the dust settles, logic suggests that if digigrid flops, then Waves will adopt AAX DSP in order to get back into the Protools HD market
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Samuel Rees

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Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2014, 11:00:29 am »

Are Soundgrid servers in fact not just TDM?

I thought the whole AAX DSP thing was because you have to pay Avid for a license to make AAX DSP plugins, but you can't make your own AAX DSP hardware, so you basically eat all these development costs to only sell to HDX users. Waves use TDM themselves in their soundgrid products, so developing for TDM makes sense...

Ultimately, this is a format battle. Waves are banking on digigrid taking over some of the HDX market, and so to try and achieve that, they are making sure digigrid has a monopoly on DSP accelerated waves plugins.

When the dust settles, logic suggests that if digigrid flops, then Waves will adopt AAX DSP in order to get back into the Protools HD market

This is definitely incorrect. Soundgrid Servers use intel processors - this is easily confirmable on their website, and by the fact that they run many of waves plugins which were never developed for TDM and are "native only" like one-knob. Huge difference. They do NOT use TDM. AAX is a format that is meant to be programmed once for intel chips (AAX native), and is easily transformed to run on avid's new HDX DSPs (unlike TDM, whose native and TDM plugins had to be coded separately from the ground up). This is why the Avid S3L won't run waves - it is based on HDX DSPs, NOT TDM.

This is much more than a format war. I bet Avid is not happy that waves won't release their products for their DSP, because it makes their HDX stuff like HDX cards in studio and avid S3L less appealing. My boss at a studio just bought HD native instead of the much more expensive HDX,
Because half of our damn plugs wouldn't even run on them so there seemed no point.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 11:21:59 am by Samuel Rees »
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Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2014, 11:21:43 am »

This is definitely incorrect. Soundgrid Servers use intel processors

Right you are. For others interested, info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundGrid

I'm aware of the S3Ls AAX DSP nature.

So then the Waves move is really just to help push Digigrid to the fore. I've always wondered why though. Surely the money is in the software, hardware is expensive and requires big supply and delivery chains that software doesn't. Why go into the hardware game unless you think you are delivering something better/different to what's out there?
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Ned Ward

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Re: Re: Avid Plug In future, was Yamaha Announcement
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2014, 01:28:09 pm »

Yes. This is also Wave's second foray into hardware accelerated DSP; their first was a disaster.

Recoding for AAX DSP hasn't been easy as TDM code was written in arcane assembly language and was completely divorced from the old RTAS code - 2 completely different things. However, AAX and AAX DSP do share some common code, so that has made it easier.

IMHO, I think Waves realized that to actually update their ancient plugins from TDM to AAX DSP wasn't worth it and they're not getting the cash flow in from people purchasing Waves - it's the most cracked set of plugins out there. They keep releasing signature plugins to try and raise more cash and the WUP program, but to rewrite from the ground up their 10-year old plugins? They won't break even on it.

So less of a format war, and more of Waves realizing they can't afford to.
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