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Author Topic: Dante recording has spikes (& simple Dante setup discussion)  (Read 56988 times)

Kieran Walsh

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Re: Dante recording has spikes
« Reply #60 on: March 11, 2014, 05:51:29 PM »

OK -

I have to say that creating a point to point wireless control network between FOH and stage would scare me a little... but its mainly an availability of spectrum thing... If you can use something interference resilient like 802.11n or the like... I would have said some time back that using 5GHz instead of 2.4 would have helped as fewer people were up in 5GHz... I am not sure that is so true anymore.

The key I found to wireless data networks was always be prepared for a lot of experimentation - placement of access points and decent antenna was always key.

The most ambitious wireless datalink I ever built out of standard parts was to control processing for a very large gig at Wembley stadium - We had two access points talking to each other on a 5GHz backhaul about 70m apart (these access points had two radio circuits each- one could work as an AP whilst the other radio circuit could connect as a backhaul to another unit). They were mounted inside those plastic tupperware containers that people stored museli in back in the 80's, and mounted at the top of some towers in the middle of the 90,000 capacity crowd using an elaborate rigging system consisting mainly of TUV certified gaffa tape, oh and some judicious glue-gun weather proofing - we relied on Newton to keep the bottom of the assembly from getting soaked I believe ;)

Between the two of them- they covered the entire stadium, certainly sufficient to get the whole system tuned when the venue was empty... getting the height was absolutely key here, as well as decent antenna.

I would say that this is the most bothersome part of the design as far as I see it - if there was a chance of getting another cable between FOH and stage - I'm sure you would have already.

SO

Taking the world as (I think) we find it...

try the attached connections

connect the Airport extreme to the control port of the M-Dante card, and the laptop to the Primary port of the M-Dante card.
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Kieran Walsh

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Re: Dante recording has spikes
« Reply #61 on: March 11, 2014, 06:02:44 PM »

Next up is IP addresses...

now this is actually a tricky one.

OK so to be honest- I would normally opt for DHCP or just good old link local addressing for nearly every simple Dante network I get involved in - simply put- if I can get away with not thinking about IP addresses where I don't have to- i'll let the machines do it.

Unfortunately I get the feeling that we might have to think about IP addresses here.

Now I know the temptation to go bang bang bang - static IP everywhere. Two arguments for trying to hold off this for as long as possible.
1. if you need to swap something out in a massive hurry its one more thing to configure.
2. it is good training for the promised day that ipV6 is upon us and then human memorable static IP addresses are GONE! (although ipv6 has been "coming" for 19 years... maybe harsh it is useful today where it is being used).

We need to find out the following:

Does the DSP unit accept DHCP, or does it want a static IP address?

If the DSP is happy to do DHCP, then can we get the GLD to follow DHCP too.

This will also make deploying paralells that much easier- as the Windows virtual machine will happily take a DHCP address, and we should be able to avoid some of the messing with the bridging settings.

Over to you on that one Mark
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Rob Spence

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Re: Dante recording has spikes
« Reply #62 on: March 11, 2014, 10:27:29 PM »

As said earlier, I have been sharing a network between (Dante - DVS) & (console - wifi/iPad) for years. Originally it was an LS9 and now a GLD.

I do not use both the wired and wifi connection on the MacBook at the same time. When using DVS I turn off wifi.

If the MacBook needs to talk wireless to another wifi network, then I would think it needs to be a different subnet in order for routing to work. I would not do that but that is just me.

If I was building a more complex Dante network then I would keep my console control on it's own network and make the Dante network with both primary and secondary.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 10:34:51 PM by Rob Spence »
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Dante recording has spikes
« Reply #63 on: March 11, 2014, 11:50:40 PM »

Mark, does the GLD console not connect to the stage box through through Dante? Is it a network spec proprietary to Allen and Heath?...

Correct, the GLD console and stage boxes talk "dSNAKE", not ACE nor Dante.  From what I've read dSNAKE and ACE are both A&H proprietary audio+control protocols. 
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Mark McFarlane

Mark McFarlane

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Re: Dante recording has spikes
« Reply #64 on: March 11, 2014, 11:59:55 PM »

Next up is IP addresses...
...
Does the DSP unit accept DHCP, or does it want a static IP address?....

The DSP requires a static address.
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Mark McFarlane

Mark McFarlane

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Re: Dante recording has spikes
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2014, 12:04:54 AM »

OK -

I have to say that creating a point to point wireless control network between FOH and stage would scare me a little... but its mainly an availability of spectrum thing... If you can use something interference resilient like 802.11n or the like... I would have said some time back that using 5GHz instead of 2.4 would have helped as fewer people were up in 5GHz... I am not sure that is so true anymore....

I understand the desire for a multicore Cat cable to FOH.  I don't own one today. I'm rarely over 20m from stage and usually have line of sight (maybe a curtain in the way)...
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Mark McFarlane

Kieran Walsh

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Re: Dante recording has spikes
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2014, 02:21:28 AM »

The DSP requires a static address.

OK so I have done a little digging...

If you can connect the Airport extreme wirelessly with no problems to the other end... (I am assuming here that you can).

I would set the Airport extreme to be on DHCP duty still. Convention would suggest that you use one of the Private IP address ranges - In this situation it doesn't matter that much, but... as the Airport extreme is likely going to serve one of those ranges "out of the box" it doesn't do any harm just to leave it.

Naturally you will observe which logical network the DHCP server is placing devices in.

I would suggest assigning a static address within that subnet to the DSP. You should be able to leave everything else on DHCP.

Again just an experiment - would be good to hear if it works.
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Dante recording has spikes
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2014, 04:58:48 AM »

OK so I have done a little digging...

If you can connect the Airport extreme wirelessly with no problems to the other end... (I am assuming here that you can).

I would set the Airport extreme to be on DHCP duty still. Convention would suggest that you use one of the Private IP address ranges - In this situation it doesn't matter that much, but... as the Airport extreme is likely going to serve one of those ranges "out of the box" it doesn't do any harm just to leave it.

Naturally you will observe which logical network the DHCP server is placing devices in.

I would suggest assigning a static address within that subnet to the DSP. You should be able to leave everything else on DHCP.

Again just an experiment - would be good to hear if it works.
I should be able to "connect the Airport extreme wirelessly with no problems to the other end.". I've done it before with other devices including computers, something Apple doesn't advertise, they only advertise remote printers  connected to an Airport Express.

And so you suggest connecting Dante Primary, the laptop NIC, and the GLD control network all to ports on the Airport Extreme, and leave the wireless of the laptop disabled?

That's really my question, i.e. one combined wired/wireless network everyone uses (as Rob does), or a dedicated hardwired Dante network and a separate wireless network for non-Dante gear. (explained in my Reply #56)
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Mark McFarlane

Chris Johnson [UK]

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Re: Dante recording has spikes (& simple Dante setup discussion)
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2014, 10:03:23 AM »

This post has ballooned! Its hard to keep track of what the original issue actually was...

Allow me to summarise, and please correct me if I'm wrong:

You have a GLD, with a Dante card. The Dante card is just for recording, the GLD gets its audio from input racks via proprietary A&H protocol with a suitably random acronym.
You have a DSP onstage which you control via ethernet.
You have some other 'stuff' that you also wan't to control.
You only have 1 Cat5e/Cat6 cable running to FOH, and that is already used for the A&H.
You'd like to use this all simultaneously with your Macbook.
Is that correct?

Obviously it would be nice to pull another cable, but assuming you can't, here is what I would do with what you have available, today.

Connect your M-Dante Primary port directly to your Macbook's ethernet port. Set your macbook to DHCP and let the Dante card and your macbook pickup a link local address.

Connect all other things needing to be controlled at FOH to your airport extreme. Let your airport extreme provide DHCP.
At the stage end, get another wireless AP and set it up as a bridge. get it to connect to the airport extreme's wireless network and receive addresses over DHCP.
Connect all stage devices, via a switch if need be, to this AP. Set them all to DHCP.

Now connect to your laptop to the airport extreme via wifi. Set parallels to have a bridged network with your wifi adapter.

Voila. You now have a separate Dante network and control network. Easy peasy.
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Mark McFarlane

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Re: Dante recording has spikes (& simple Dante setup discussion)
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2014, 12:55:32 PM »

Quote

This post has ballooned! Its hard to keep track of what the original issue actually was...

Allow me to summarise, and please correct me if I'm wrong:

You have a GLD, with a Dante card. The Dante card is just for recording, the GLD gets its audio from input racks via proprietary A&H protocol with a suitably random acronym.
You have a DSP onstage which you control via ethernet.
You have some other 'stuff' that you also wan't to control.
You only have 1 Cat5e/Cat6 cable running to FOH, and that is already used for the A&H.
You'd like to use this all simultaneously with your Macbook.
Is that correct?


Yes, correct

Quote
Obviously it would be nice to pull another cable, but assuming you can't, here is what I would do with what you have available, today.

I have a spare cable I could run, just not multicore. I'd prefer to keep the spare in the trunk.

Quote

Connect your M-Dante Primary port directly to your Macbook's ethernet port. Set your macbook to DHCP and let the Dante card and your macbook pickup a link local address.

Connect all other things needing to be controlled at FOH to your airport extreme. Let your airport extreme provide DHCP.
At the stage end, get another wireless AP and set it up as a bridge. get it to connect to the airport extreme's wireless network and receive addresses over DHCP.
Connect all stage devices, via a switch if need be, to this AP. Set them all to DHCP.

Now connect to your laptop to the airport extreme via wifi. Set parallels to have a bridged network with your wifi adapter.

Voila. You now have a separate Dante network and control network. Easy peasy.
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Mark McFarlane

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Dante recording has spikes (& simple Dante setup discussion)
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2014, 12:55:32 PM »


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