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Author Topic: New Sound System from the ground up  (Read 2126 times)

Adam Allison

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Re: New Sound System from the ground up
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2014, 01:00:53 pm »

Understanding the room is far more important than a hard list of gear. Until you understand the room's dynamic capabilities and what could or could not excite the room the gear portion is a long shot. You need to have someone in the industry come and do a modeling of the room. That way you can understand SPL, intelligible levels, and how to "paint the room" with sound hitting only what it should. It will give you a proper analysis of treatments needed and systems used to make your room gain clarity needed for the proper audio solution. You can actually see how each system will respond and react with a model. In the long term integration of the right solution will far out way the money "saved" on the DIY system, because that money will inevitably be overwhelmed with "fixes" or "redesigns."

Adam -Sound Stage Inc.
"The bitter taste of low quality will always outlast the satisfaction of low cost."
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Adam Allison
Systems Consultant                       
SOUND STAGE INC.
6869 Stapoint Ct.  Suite 105
Winter Park, FL  32792
FL Lic #ES12000666
407.679.5090  Office
407.782.6977  Cell
adam.allison@soundstageinc.com

TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: New Sound System from the ground up
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2014, 02:04:29 pm »

Understanding the room is far more important than a hard list of gear. Until you understand the room's dynamic capabilities and what could or could not excite the room the gear portion is a long shot. You need to have someone in the industry come and do a modeling of the room. That way you can understand SPL, intelligible levels, and how to "paint the room" with sound hitting only what it should. It will give you a proper analysis of treatments needed and systems used to make your room gain clarity needed for the proper audio solution. You can actually see how each system will respond and react with a model. In the long term integration of the right solution will far out way the money "saved" on the DIY system, because that money will inevitably be overwhelmed with "fixes" or "redesigns."

Adam -Sound Stage Inc.
"The bitter taste of low quality will always outlast the satisfaction of low cost."
Please change your username to be your full real name, as clearly indicated in forum rules.
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Michael A. Yates

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Re: New Sound System from the ground up
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2014, 02:07:04 am »

I agree with what others are saying. Sometimes it's better to take a step back and look at what you have already in place to work with before you dive right into spending a whole lot of money. I have worked with churches in the past that all that was needed was some simple training and a few tweaks to the processing. But since you're talking about replacing the system I would really suggest consulting  a professional before just buying something because it sounded good at a DJ party.  A pro could Point you in the right direction after reviewing your style of worship and the actual venue itself. When I do church installs I always sit down with the worship leaders and tec directors to find out the needs from both groups. I also understand you have came here for advice on some types of gear... Most  smaller churches that I have done installs in satisfy with a flown cluster of community speakers (Size and model depending on the style of worship an size of the room), a community subwoofer, QSC amplification, and a StudioLive. I do not suggest you try to fly any kind of speakers however without a pro! This could be very dangerous and a huge liability! But again I will say, just don't buy something because it's cheap and it puts out sound. This always comes to mind when having a discussion such as this

 "Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the pipe or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and the speaker is a foreigner to me. So it is with you. Since you are eager for gifts of the Spirit, try to excel in those that build up the church. (1 Corinthians 14:7-12 NIV)"

Feel Free to ask anyone up here any questions that you need answers to. 



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Don Sullivan

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Re: New Sound System from the ground up
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2014, 10:27:49 am »

If those are really your speakers ( the link you provided) don't waste your time with them. They are not made for live music reinforcement. Get a budget together. The JBLs you mentioned are up to the task, pretty much anything else that can handle a few hundred watts will be better. Yes you need to understand the room, yes, spend carefully. Buy quality transducers, your bangs for the buck go farthest on good speakers and microphones. Placement is key for good coverage. Hang if you can, but get a licensed contractor to perform that task.
Once you get a reasonable PA that will give you the sound levels you want for music, get your pastor a quality head-worn microphone so the spoken word can keep up with your new found level of music.
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Brad Weber

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Re: New Sound System from the ground up
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2014, 10:14:15 am »

If those are really your speakers ( the link you provided) don't waste your time with them. They are not made for live music reinforcement. Get a budget together. The JBLs you mentioned are up to the task, pretty much anything else that can handle a few hundred watts will be better.
The rated power handling is generally not as relevant as the desired speaker pattern and output.  While the maximum output possible with a speaker may be limited by the maximum power rating, the power required to get a certain output is related to the speaker sensitivity rather than the rated power.  The common example is that a speaker rated at 125W and 97dB at 1W/1m can get just as loud as a speaker rated at 500W and 91dB at 1W/1m, the lower power handling of the first speaker is offset by the greater sensitivity.  So you usually aren't as concerned with the rated power handling of the speakers as much as you are with the potential output levels.
 
Placement is key for good coverage.
Speaker placement is indeed important but also goes hand-in-hand with the speaker pattern.  This is one area where permanent installs differ from tour or rental type systems as rather than a flexible system that can work reasonably well in many different applications and venues, with an installed system you typically focus on optimizing the system for a specific venue and often for specific applications.  Thus selecting the speakers for installed systems typically involves considering the speaker patterns and locations such that the speaker system will provide appropriate coverage for that particular space.
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Peter Martin

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Re: New Sound System from the ground up
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2014, 11:55:15 pm »

I'm looking to replace pretty much every facet of the sound system in a sanctuary that is split into two sections separated by a wall that extends downward approx. 5 feet from the ceiling. The "main" room is 3750 sq. ft, of which about 1/4 is stage space. The other "room" is about 2500 sq ft, of which about 1/5 is stage space. The ceiling in both rooms is vaulted at anywhere between 30 and 40 feet. Basically, it's an acoustical nightmare.

That said, I'm not so much looking to make the sound perfect as I am looking to make the new system adequate for the space.  What I'm looking at currently is:

4 Cerwin Vega INT-152 V2 speakers (2 on each side)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/997157-REG/cerwin_vega_int_152v2_int_152_v2_15_2_way.html

2 Cerwin Vega INT-118S V2 Subwoofers (1 on each side)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/997159-REG/cerwin_vega_int_118sv2_int_118s_v2_18_passive.html

3 Cerwin Vega CV-1800 amps
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/997138-REG/cerwin_vega_cv_1800_na_cv_1800_high_performance_professional.html

1 PreSonus Studio Live 16.0.2 Digital Mixer
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/763627-REG/PreSonus_STUDIOLIVE_16_0_2_StudioLive_16_0_2_Performance.html

I'm also planning some other purchases, but I'm certain on those purchases. My question is about the above listed items.

Are they adequate or overkill? Are they about right for my needs?

The system will be primarily used for regular traditional and contemporary worship services, as well as monthly movie nights and other activities.

Thanks for you input.
So I've been looking at a lot of these replys and I personally think that the Community SLS920s would do you good, as well as the single 12" QRX Subs, and a nice couple of crowns would power them nicely. Now on the mixer side if your wanting digital I personally love the Soundcraft SI Performer 2 and 3. 
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