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Author Topic: Danley Subwoofer Powered/Amped Opinions  (Read 7924 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Subwoofer Powered/Amped Opinions
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2014, 07:50:57 AM »

I did it the other way. I am saying I need those subs to be able to have enough power to get very close to or achieve their specified output levels for our room so that we will have enough output for all the events we do.
How do you know?

Have you done the calculations figuring out what SPL you need-the distance that SPL is needed at-the sensitivity vs freq response of the cabinets to figure out the wattage needed to achieve that SPL?

THEN have you figured in the typical crest factor of the music style you are using?

Was your SPL based on a peak level or some sort of continuous level?

What weighting and time constant was used to get that rating?

Most loudspeakers only "require" 1 watt or so to operate.

Now to get the level you need-that is a different story-but they do not always have to have the maximum wattage they can handle.

And you also have to figure that the wattage ratings are based on "standards" (there are a number to choose from) that may or may not reflect the freq range-time constants of the music you are playing.

So the wattage figures can often go down from the published figures.  Those numbers are based on "normal" music-as defined in the standards.  Your music may not be normal.

With some music styles (low crest factor music)it is a good idea to use amplifiers at HALF (or less) of the rated continuous output to avoid damage.  On other styles (greater crest factor) you can use amps up to 4 times the continuous rating (peak)

And they are also based on the amount they can handle and still not break.  Just a little bit more and they are gone.

If you intend to run any loudspeakers right up to their maximum-then I HIGHLY suggest you get more or louder loudspeakers to achieve the SPL you need.

Because if you push them to their limits all the time-you will be replacing drivers-and the cost would quickly add up to more than the additional loudspeakers needed to achieve a particular SPL.

I am not telling you what to do-but just to be aware that there are many factors involved in "system design" and different situations need different approaches.

In the same size room-one type of music may require 20 times (or more) the sound system as another type of music.

So you HAVE to define the parameters/the target if you will-if you are going to be able to successfully hit it.

Yes a lot of design is done by "shooting from the hip" but that is also done by people who have a lot of experience-understand the products they are using-how they perform-what they are capable of and so forth.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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David Hoover

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Re: Danley Subwoofer Powered/Amped Opinions
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2014, 01:57:32 AM »

How do you know?

Have you done the calculations figuring out what SPL you need-the distance that SPL is needed at-the sensitivity vs freq response of the cabinets to figure out the wattage needed to achieve that SPL?

THEN have you figured in the typical crest factor of the music style you are using?

Was your SPL based on a peak level or some sort of continuous level?

What weighting and time constant was used to get that rating?

Most loudspeakers only "require" 1 watt or so to operate.

Now to get the level you need-that is a different story-but they do not always have to have the maximum wattage they can handle.

And you also have to figure that the wattage ratings are based on "standards" (there are a number to choose from) that may or may not reflect the freq range-time constants of the music you are playing.

So the wattage figures can often go down from the published figures.  Those numbers are based on "normal" music-as defined in the standards.  Your music may not be normal.

With some music styles (low crest factor music)it is a good idea to use amplifiers at HALF (or less) of the rated continuous output to avoid damage.  On other styles (greater crest factor) you can use amps up to 4 times the continuous rating (peak)

And they are also based on the amount they can handle and still not break.  Just a little bit more and they are gone.

If you intend to run any loudspeakers right up to their maximum-then I HIGHLY suggest you get more or louder loudspeakers to achieve the SPL you need.

Because if you push them to their limits all the time-you will be replacing drivers-and the cost would quickly add up to more than the additional loudspeakers needed to achieve a particular SPL.

I am not telling you what to do-but just to be aware that there are many factors involved in "system design" and different situations need different approaches.

In the same size room-one type of music may require 20 times (or more) the sound system as another type of music.

So you HAVE to define the parameters/the target if you will-if you are going to be able to successfully hit it.

Yes a lot of design is done by "shooting from the hip" but that is also done by people who have a lot of experience-understand the products they are using-how they perform-what they are capable of and so forth.

That's why I have been asking and researching.  That's a good point about having experienced the speakers. That is why I keep asking about them. Danley speakers and subs have bold output claims and I have used speakers of many brand that do and don't live up to that claim.  I will be assuming about a 12dB crest factor for the typical contemporary Christian we play.  I would also be assuming 15dB greater subs than speakers.  At the console, one could calculate 115dB peak from the SH96's.  With a crest factor of about 12, would I be correct in saying we could then sustain about 103dB? .  More or less depending on what band and who is mixing.     We would get a little extra low end coupling because the speakers will be in 1/2 space.  Then 130dB and 118dB respectively for subs. That is the most we would ever need.  Sure for a normal weekend I know two TH118's will give me enough with a little left over, but for special events, we will need at least three TH118's preferably 4. I know from experience 2 TH118's Center clustered with a PL380 delivering 2500W per subwoofer is not enough to meet our needs.  We demoed two TH118's. It would meet service needs but not events or shows.  I would be just touching a clip or two on the amp with two.

I'll write back in more detail when it's not so late lol.


« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 01:59:38 AM by David Hoover »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Subwoofer Powered/Amped Opinions
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2014, 08:54:24 AM »

That's why I have been asking and researching.  That's a good point about having experienced the speakers. That is why I keep asking about them. Danley speakers and subs have bold output claims and I have used speakers of many brand that do and don't live up to that claim.  I will be assuming about a 12dB crest factor for the typical contemporary Christian we play.  I would also be assuming 15dB greater subs than speakers.  At the console, one could calculate 115dB peak from the SH96's.  With a crest factor of about 12, would I be correct in saying we could then sustain about 103dB? .  More or less depending on what band and who is mixing.     We would get a little extra low end coupling because the speakers will be in 1/2 space.  Then 130dB and 118dB respectively for subs. That is the most we would ever need.  Sure for a normal weekend I know two TH118's will give me enough with a little left over, but for special events, we will need at least three TH118's preferably 4. I know from experience 2 TH118's Center clustered with a PL380 delivering 2500W per subwoofer is not enough to meet our needs.  We demoed two TH118's. It would meet service needs but not events or shows.  I would be just touching a clip or two on the amp with two.

I'll write back in more detail when it's not so late lol.
NOW we are getting somewhere-

This is the first post on the thread that lists some "targets" in terms of SPL.

Up until now-I have not seen an target-just "is it enough" type of thing.

As I say all the time-FIRST you define the target-THEN you decide what tool to use to reach that target.

As a general rule a single DBH218 is equal to 2 TH118s with the amp power being the same in either case.

A DBH218 is less expensive than 2 TH118s-but the physical space requirements are different.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Danley Subwoofer Powered/Amped Opinions
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2014, 08:54:24 AM »


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