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[Debbie Dunkley]

I was out last night with the band I work with 80% of the time.
The singer has just started to have some hearing concerns - ringing and such and is getting concerned that she is losing some hearing. She was wearing ear plugs last night. The guitar player was wearing them also.
The last 2 gigs they performed, they used other folks to do sound and it seems they had issues with monitors among other things which I must say they never have with me doing the sound -I always provide good clear effective monitor mixes and very rarely get feedback issues. The musicians I work with very rarely complain...yet all was good the last few gigs I did for them and ironically now these changes.
This caused me some problems. The guitar player was crazy loud through his backline - because he couldn't hear himself - and this made it difficult for me. Also the singer had her monitor levels ridiculously high again because she couldn't hear herself on stage. It was a tough night.
So........the singer had mentioned going iem.
The drummer already uses a wired iem system so a non-issue. Going this route would allow me to get plenty of guitar level to the guitarists iem and  take care of the excessive volume on stage  and of course we want to preserve the singers hearing - the girl can wail.
I'd like to make the investment to help them a bit - benefits me too of course.  I have never dealt with such sophisticated monitoring techniques - he he....
What would be a good starting point for me to get going with this?
I read that bands go in together and 'share' a system with separate receivers. And then I read that there are individual systems. Bit confusing to me right now so if I am going to make the investment, and offer the iem system  as an alternative to wedges (I already use nice equipment - SRX / Crown/ QU16 etc ) , I want to make the right choice - buy once cry once !!

One more thing....the guitarist and bass player use wireless for their instruments but just SM's for mics and the singer uses a wireless Sennheiser.

 Thanks peeps...

[frank kayser]

I know you're looking for wireless - buy once, cry once. (BOCO)
I work with a band who bring a wired system - guitarist.vocal, lead guitarist/vocal, drummer/vocal are on a wired system - and some wedges for the bass player and the cello player.


It's a whole lot cheaper -  and can be more flexible for more bands (less tx/rx) .
It may be something you may wish to consider - same effect.


Just to keep your mind open a bit...


frank

[Debbie Dunkley]

I know you're looking for wireless - buy once, cry once. (BOCO)
I work with a band who bring a wired system - guitarist.vocal, lead guitarist/vocal, drummer/vocal are on a wired system - and some wedges for the bass player and the cello player.


It's a whole lot cheaper -  and can be more flexible for more bands (less tx/rx) .
It may be something you may wish to consider - same effect.


Just to keep your mind open a bit...


frank

Good point and very practical...thing is that if the musicians are already 'wireless' with their instruments, not sure they'd want to be 'tethered' again....not a problem with the drummer of course who is already 'tethered'.
This particular band is only a 4 piece and whilst playing, the singer, guitar player and bass player love to come out into the audience to interact. It's part of what they do......
I was thinking maybe I could provide the receiver and let them each buy their individual iems......is that an option maybe or is it impractical?

[Samuel Rees]

That's common, because people often go with molded IEMs which are only for them anyway.

Check out http://www.rockonaudio.com/

I see there stuff come through the club occasionally - it's a cool solution for members who already have a cable running to their guitar. It puts a headphone amplifier on the floor, and runs the IEM cable snaked alongside the guitar cable going to the players body. Not for everyone of course, but in the right situation looks pretty excellent. Never used them myself, just patch to them for touring acts

EDIT: I missed that you said your musicians were already wireless, my mistake.

[frank kayser]

Good point and very practical...thing is that if the musicians are already 'wireless' with their instruments, not sure they'd want to be 'tethered' again....not a problem with the drummer of course who   is already 'tethered'.
This particular band is only a 4 piece and whilst playing, the singer, guitar player and bass player love to come out into the audience to interact. It's part of what they do......
I was thinking maybe I could provide the receiver and let them each buy their individual iems......is that an option maybe or is it impractical?

First, Debbie, I am not an expert in IEM by any means.  I've run the one band with wired IEM, and once a radio IEM.  That said, I'll still spout my nonsense 


Of course, with the band on the roam, wired is out of the question.


If you buy the transmitter, the receiver has to match - I'm sure you figured that already.  Splitting the cost of tx to you and rx to them splits the system for anything else you want to do.


The in-ear molded  part is r-e-l-a-t-i-v-e-l-y  inexpensive in comparison to the tx/rx piece.

I'd guess the set would come with some generic earpieces for another band.

[/size]You said 80% of your business is with this band - maybe a cost split would be ok if you don't need/want them for other gigs, or rent them back from the museos.

[/size]frank

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[Debbie Dunkley]

First, Debbie, I am not an expert in IEM by any means.  I've run the one band with wired IEM, and once a radio IEM.  That said, I'll still spout my nonsense 


Of course, with the band on the roam, wired is out of the question.


If you buy the transmitter, the receiver has to match - I'm sure you figured that already.  Splitting the cost of tx to you and rx to them splits the system for anything else you want to do.


The in-ear molded  part is r-e-l-a-t-i-v-e-l-y  inexpensive in comparison to the tx/rx piece.

I'd guess the set would come with some generic earpieces for another band.

[/size]You said 80% of your business is with this band - maybe a cost split would be ok if you don't need/want them for other gigs, or rent them back from the museos.

[/size]frank

[/size]
[/size]

If the band members invested in any part of the system, of course I would not consider using that part of it for anyone else.
However, I thought - and this is I think where I have it all wrong - that I could 'piece part' together a system to enable the musicians to own their individual receivers/ phones and for me to be able to use perhaps generic 'lesser' options for other bands with me owning a decent quality transmitter. I thought it would all work together once frequencies were dialled in - no???...it's not the case is it??? oh poop....

[Debbie Dunkley]

So.....what if I ask the question "What systems are you guys using".....maybe I can re-think and perhaps get the money together for a complete system  ...ouch....

[frank kayser]

If the band members invested in any part of the system, of course I would not consider using that part of it for anyone else.
However, I thought - and this is I think where I have it all wrong - that I could 'piece part' together a system to enable the musicians to own their individual receivers/ phones and for me to be able to use perhaps generic 'lesser' options for other bands with me owning a decent quality transmitter. I thought it would all work together once frequencies were dialled in - no???...it's not the case is it??? oh poop....

I am aware that wireless mics - tx and rx must be matched - I believe in all situations (need verification or correction here).  It's not just about frequencies, though if those frequencies are used by something else, there will be interference - mostly dropouts vs. crosstalk.


So I'm pretty sure it's "oh poop..." (of course, it could poop on me instead - I'm far from an expert and I hope someone here will confirm or correct my babbling)


frank

[Debbie Dunkley]

I just went web  surfing.
So, I'm thinking this : The Sennheiser EW300/2 seems to be the minimum worth investing in and a little better than the Shure entry level. Of course there are far more expensive systems that are probably much better quality but as my first intro to the world of iems, this might just work.
Please correct me if I have it wrong.
I can give the guitar player -who is very specific with his requirements- his own mix. I can give the singer -who again is very specific with her needs - her own mix. Then I could purchase an extra receiver for the bass player who is far easier to please and connect him to one of the other mixes. Drummer is wired already.
How does that sound ??
Keeps things affordable and less chance of frequency 'fights' ....
Remember, this will be a first for me with an iem system so if I get decent results, I might be tempted to go bigger and better down the road...

[Jordan Wolf]

Debbie,

People are turned off from IEM experiences for a few main reasons, in my book:

1a. Poor-fitting Earphones - they must have a proper seal, or they will sound thin and lifeless, and will allow outside noise in.  This can also magnify the occlusion effect (outside sounds are muffled, but you hear the low end of your own voice very well, footfalls are heard "inside your head", etc.

1b. Poor-sounding Earphones - don't use stock earbuds you got with your computer or music player...buy the right tool for the job.

2. Lack of localization/Separation from the rest of the band/audience - use of audience mics (aimed towards the crowd, while not picking up the main PA system wash) helps immensely; using stereo and not dual-mono setups for monitoring helps with spatial details.  Judicious use of reverb for each mix helps, too. 

Oh, and ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS ensure each IEM mx has some form of limiting on it.  When someone drops/whacks a mic or unplugs a guitar without you muting the channel, it's not a big deal on wedges...but it feels like YOU were what got whacked with the mic when you use IEMs.

It's a very personal thing, and the end users MUST be comfortable with their choices as individuals AND a group.  Can't throw off that groove...

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